stevethemanjordan

Contribute. Impact. Chase hard. Compete hard. Execute a basic skill. He failed. We have many in the same boat. Far too many. They pick and choose when they want to play.

Bump. First solid AFL gam over a five year period last week. Gets his own 'appreciation thread'. The next week has under 5 touches with a gimme goal in the square when the game was out of reach. Didn't contribute. Not the only one of course. How are we expected to improve as a side when so many are in the same boat. And why on earth do players like this get an appreciation thread for one solid game of AFL football when they're a five + year player? Because it's Melbourne we are talking about. Deadwood still needs to go.

When Vanders gets a full AFL pre-season of running in, he'll be a really really valuable mid for us. He reminds me of Dangerfield with his explosive attack on the ball and man. I reckon we'll be pleasantly surprised about how dynamic he'll be once his anaerobic capacity improves. A really good pickup for a rookie.

Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying.

That's true, I keep thinking he was drafted in Watts' year. Regardless, I stand by my point that his performance is something we should expect from a player who's been in the system for as long as he has. A solid game. Let's hope that can be a benchmark.

Oh TDI. What's going to happen to you when these players you keep backing are going to be gone at years end? The ones who had such outstanding pre-seasons. Are you not wanting to see this club win a flag one day? Or do you prefer watching the agonising incremental improvement of certain individuals, hoping that they continue to earn contract extensions? What are your views on list development and player upgrades. Bringing someone in and moving another out? Do you have any views on them at all? I'm interested.

Yes. These threads are intriguing. He's been in the system for seven years now and played on a second year key forward in Tom Boyd who got zero supply and was ineffective in the ruck and he also played on Cordy or Roughead, neither of whom are much chop. Defensively, he did a good job. It was a solid game. But shouldn't we as supporters expect this from a bloke who's been on the list for 7 years? All he needed to do was compete hard and beat his man. I'd like to see 15 more games like that before I get too excited. We've seen plenty of players over the years play a solid game here and there and plenty of terrible ones. Fitzy is a limited player. He doesn't have great kicking skills nor decision making skills but he's tall, fast and agile. I don't think it's worth getting excited about anything at this point. I'm just happy he was one of many who contributed positively to the side. We need a lot more of that a lot more of the time.

Few that have been on our list for 7 + years would be deemed 'crucial' players in my eyes, which is only one of many contributing factors as to why we've been so bad for so long. Garland is one of those guys like Frawley and like Grimes who is incredibly up and down. The difference between his best and worst is astonishing. Defensively, when on song, he can be an extremely valuable member of our back six. His offensive drive, intensity, kicking skills and decision making however have all been questionable over the entirety of his career. When he plays a great defensive game and plays with a visible intensity as he did on Sunday, he (like others in the same boat) lift our side enormously. It's again a question of consistency. It's a question of intensity and concentration. He's another senior bloke who seems as if he's been really affected by what he's endured for many years. Of course it's not all the clubs fault as someone like Jones has been able to overcome it. In my opinion, the need for decision making skills and foot skills coming out of our back line is a priority along with adding to the midfield so losing Garland on current form would not worry me in the slightest. Especially considering our success rate for players we've got into the club from losing long time MFC players. He is part of the Dunn, Frawley and Jamar crew era. None of them are club changing players. I think Dunn is the one to hold onto as part of the 'old crew'. Garland leaving will net is something good. Unless he decides to play the remainder of the season like he did on Sunday. (With minimal skill errors).

Yeh look.Unfortunately for the MFC, that kind of act isn't always the norm for certain players when really it should be. And singling out something like that just highlights my point. I don't mean to rain on Jimmy's parade. He easily had his best game for our club on Sunday and you could see that not only by his possession count but in his intensity and energy in and around the ball. It's the same with Watts. If anyone watched footy classified last night Gary pointed it out too. Two acts that were polar opposite in his willingness to compete. We need players who commit these acts on a consistent basis.

He's proof that individuals can impact games off limited pre-seasons for those who continuously make excuses for sub-standard footballers on our list. He really highlights those who have been on the list for years but who cannot perform consistently. Vanders has some really solid attributes to his name and is only going to get better as his tank improves.

NFI. Just sayin...

Nice to win. Not going to get overly excited though. Fitzpatrick, one good game. Let's see him back it up now against tougher opposition. Same goes with Toumpas. I think we need to see a bare minimum in effort from these guys and also a cap on how many mistakes certain players make during a game. We need consistency in form from many of our players over several games if we're going to stay competitive. Not just one flashy game here and there. Vandenberg is proof that if you have a desire to compete and you're cool and calm with the ball, you can consistently have an impact. This is from a mature age rookie who's coming off half an AFL pre-season. And his first at that. Hogan and Brayshaw also display these characteristics.

Because he has at least proven that he has the ability to do those things. It's a question of consistency for Gawn, not ability. Whereas Spencer has never shown that he has the ability to kicks goals, take contested marks around the ground or tap to advantage. (Save yourselves from pointing out he may have done it once or twice during a game).

I've gotta say I'm surprised Spencer is still in the team. Surely Gawn comes in now. We need a ruckman who can tap to advantage. We need a ruckman who will take some contested marks around the ground and potentially go forward and kick some goals. As you say P-man, this is where we can exploit the Dogs 'we don't need a ruckman' thought. Spencer doesn't have the football brain nor ability to give us any sort of advantage.

One Ruckman: Griffen, Leuenberger, Smith or Dixon One A-grade Midfielder: Danger, Sloane, Shiel or Treloar One of any of the following second-tier mids: Douglas, Selwood, Moore, De Boer, Coniglio, Yarran or Ellis-Yolmen One of the following youngsters: Lennon or Lonergan And I wouldn't even mind if we got another veteran FA in to take over from Cross and to allow for further development for our younger mids. One of: Thompson, Bartel, Kelly or Goodes. (Very unlikely of course). We have to have at least three more mids come from other clubs. We need to land a star player and it doesn't bother me how much we pay them. The second two definite starting 22 players with who possess both skill and fierce competitiveness.

Go dees

Very exciting news.The thought of developing Brayshaw and Petracca into potentially A-grade AFL midfielders is pretty nice. They've both got that self-drive, they're extremely competitive and clearly they're talented. They're all really important base attributes. Our club environment is better than it's ever been in regards to being able to nurture and develop talent. We've got the right coaches, much better leaders and clearly our standards in every area have gone up. I think luck is what we need. We need Petracca and Brayshaw to have a clean run at it. No more serious injuries to our young players please.

It's obviously a similar scenario to Garlett's... When a player is in an environment where they're happy, enjoying footy and have confidence they'll be playing to their potential and we've seen the best of Garlett and Yarran over the years. And their best is extremely exciting and attractive football. I hope we go for him. Great Matt Jones replacement. Roosy would get the best out of him and we're in dire need of footskills. The amount of marking opportunities he'd create for Hogan would be phenomenal. As for the gun Mid. We'd just have to try our best to entice one of Treloar, Shiel or Danger. Crossed fingers. An established Ruckman wouldn't be too hard.

Yarran would be a perfect fit and addition for us. Skills, pace and a seriously good player when at the top of his game and when in the right mindset. He's a player who like Garlett (needed), needs a change and I'd love him. A genuine A-grade mid would be the priority as well as an AFL standard Ruckman.

Somehow he's taken a different route to so many other drafted at a similar time. Consistently working as hard as he can to work on his game. When you hear him speak you can hear how badly he wants to be the best defender in the league. He's hell bent on it and all of this hard work and concentration is paying off. He's following in the footsteps of Nathan Jones. Similar personalities. Just wanting to do everything they can to better themselves as players and letting nothing stop them. We certainly need more personalities like that at our club. Liked reading what a previous poster wrote in that he, like Nathan in his earlier years sometimes does a bit much/has a brain fade and sometimes it's God ugly but it's forgivable if 95% of the game he is perfect. The only thing I'd like to see is those 'what was he thinking' moments slowly disappear. He is not someone possessed with amazing skill, awareness or what I'd term 'natural' ability. So he needs to keep taking the first option most times. His marking and defending have been astonishing. It's his offensive drive that has really improved but as I said, the odd brain fade is still there and they need to go. Overall, another blessing in disguise in regards to Frawley's departure? I think so.

Whether you like it or not, we will be getting a ruckman for next year. Jamar is shot and Spencer just doesn't cut it at the top level. We have no other options and Roos is doing the right thing by playing the blokes who are in better form at VFL level so please save the talk of Spencer currently being out number 1 ruckman as of last week. It's definitely not something to be excited about. I agree with Bendigo demon's post in that turning over certain players, developing and blooding new talent the right way and trading and acquiring the right players does take time which is incredibly tough for supporters as it seems as if that has been the story at our club for a decade. We'll be working with what we've got for the time, but next year you'd hope we'll have acquired one competent Ruckman who is able to run, perform the basic skills of the game well and is a smart footballer.

It says more about our ruck department than anything... You're right, I cringe watching Spencer around the ground. But the one thing he'll provide that Jamar just doesn't is an ability to chase, tackle and run. Jamar atm is like watching a shot giraffe.

Once out of the ruck contest, Jamar offers very little. It's no surprise really.

Is that solely the midfield? It is universally known that we've been the poorest kicking side for a very long time. If we kick out to a contest from our backline and the ball comes straight back in, that is considered an inside 50. So again, stats like that do not tell the full story. I agree on the weekend we were comprehensively smashed in the midfield in most areas, but I am taking an overall look at the field. It's a given that our midfield needs work. Further development and a further injection of mature quality AFL midfielders as I said in the OP. But there are other areas that we need to fix pretty immediately also and can be achieved at the same time.

Well I don't know what your definition of 'consistent' is. And I completely disagree with the comment. They've been three of our most consistent players over what period of time? What is your measurement? Over their entire careers, each of them have been really inconsistent. I think most would agree with that. Dunn had a terrific year last year in defence and as one of our senior players you'd hope that would be the norm but it's not. Garland has been 'meh' so far in games and Howe the same aside from his usual highlights. McDonald is someone who has been, over a period of time now, getting consistently better and therefore is one of our most consistent players. He is improving his game every year. And I don't have an obsession with Garland. I have an obsession with my desire for our team to improve and to think about what that means. And unfortunately for posters like yourself it means player upgrading, trading and delisting. Garland is expendable. Howe is expendable. Many thought Frawley would be a loss. Many thought Sylvia would be a loss. I'm simply looking at areas we need to get better in and I'm happy to point the finger at senior figures who are under achieving and not helping the club get off the bottom of the ladder. Garland displays little leadership if any. Howe the same. And their form is hardly inspiring to date. I agree we still need to address the midfield, but the backline is still a problem area.