Gator

I know it's part of an apprenticeship, but I think you're overly excited about playing finals and just making up the numbers. Half the competition play finals. Ordinary sides play finals. How have those 3 straight years of finals helped Richmond ? I think it's a blessing in disguise to not play finals this year. There will be a drive over summer that will hold this group in good stead for 2017.

I'll be looking at Weideman as the equivalent of this year's first rounder. But with a year already in the system.

Yes, I quoted your incorrect stats and then proceeded to note that they were incorrect. The point being that if the were correct (they weren't) it wouldn't have mattered anyway. 1.4 to 1.2 would have been a non-issue if your stats were correct. Which, of course, they weren't. You are a blight on this site, but tolerated for some mystical reason. Not be me anymore.

YOUR stats are wrong. You posted that he averaged 1.4 tackles in 2015 and 1.2 in 2016. This is INCORRECT. He averages 1.4 this year and 1.25 LAST year. This point still escapes you. I also said "he's a young player with 30 odd games and is no doubt working on all aspects of his game", which you either didn't read or once again chose to ignore. By all means hold him to account, but when YOU bring up stats at least get them right. And the contested marks stat was beyond a joke. He's top 3 (equal) in the competition and was the same as last year before yesterday's game. Anyway, enough of you, Stu. You don't warrant further time from me or anybody else.

Hang on. Are you related to Bub ? YOU were the one comparing his tackles this year compared to last. YOU. And if you're going to compare one year to the next you have to use the games in the subsequent year, which in this case is 13. Last year he averaged 1.25 tackles for the WHOLE year and this year he's averaging 1.4 tackles. YOU got YOUR stats wrong whichever way you want to slice it or dice it. Change your post which gives the incorrect numbers. And let's keep going with your stats. Last year Hogan averaged 2.4 contested marks per game. This year he averaged 2.4 contested marks per game, i.e. the same, before yesterday's game. How many contested marks did you think he was going take in the pouring rain ? Talk about disingenuity. Before Sunday this stat was identical. It's incredible that you would bring up a stat that can change from one round to the next. So we've now demolished 2 of your stats. Your other stat, i.e. disposal efficiency, is arguably the most useless stat in the AFL. James Frawley came in the top 15 last year and is top 30 this year. Haha. Good stat. And in the post above you question his "work rate". His work rate is superb. The ground he covers for a key forward is superb and acknowledged by all paid to analyse the game. But let's look at some other stats. He averages more marks inside 50 this year, (3.2 > 2.6), more disposals (15.5 > 13.1), more marks in general (7.1 > 6.7), more goal assists, and more shots at goal (3.85 > 3.15). Oh and more tackles (1.4 > 1.25). Most importantly, he's a young player with 30 odd games and is no doubt working on all aspects of his game. He's rarely out-marked and the contests he makes every week are nothing short of outstanding. He's constantly providing opportunities for others and I repeat has an exceptional work rate. Rather than analysing football stick to your silly gifs.

Some are concerned his tackles are going from 1.4 to 1.2 (which is approx. 3 tackles over 13 rounds). That's the level of debate provided by some. Ever checked the numbers of nearly all the great key forwards ? But let's get the facts straight. In the first 13 games Hogan played last year he made 13 tackles. In the first 13 games this year he's made 18. So even the point that was being made is factually incorrect. He's made 5 more tackles this year from the same amount of games. Hogan is the best young talent to come the club in 40 years, but naturally enough there are those who would rather concern themselves about his perceived lack of pressure in the forward 50. Of all the things to dwell on they think a hulking 195cm forward could apply more defensive pressure. It's about 77 on the list of things you could highlight or be concerned about. Jeff Garlett being down an average of one tackle per game is of more concern, because that's a strong part of the role of a small forward.

I reckon a club would do well to rookie him. He's worth a punt imo (assuming he's delisted subject to contract status).

Perhaps if you revisit the post you responded to you'll see I simply said that I'm still underwhelmed by them as players. And that they'll probably not run out on GF day when we get there. For some reason you then felt the need to state the bleeding obvious. We all know that role players get a medal sound their neck. It's my view that these two probably won't get that opportunity. Let's hope that you, me and fanboy above find out.

So did Clay Sampson and Steven Armstrong. If they do they do they're still "good ordinary", which makes them less likely than likely in my view. Any other scenarios you can mention that won't mean anything to me ?

I still am. Good ordinary players who are great for the club's depth and both are presently best 22, but when we're in the hunt for a flag I doubt either will be running out on GF day. But I agree they've been worthwhile recruits and better than I expected.

Nah mate, I remember it happening. Viney was already walking off. It was byplay between two friends. There was no "helping" about it.

Trengove is the obvious replacement.

Just the thoughts of a jealous random [censored]. What he's achieving is phenomenal and he already gets marked harder than most as expectations are ridiculously high. He's 21 and hasn't even played 30 games. Boyd has played roughly the same number of games and Dog's supporters constantly call for him to be given 'time'. Patton is older and looked far more at home behind the ball (defence) on the weekend. And Saints fans wet themselves over an 11 disposal/2 goal game from McCartin. Hogan is a young player who is already judged against his own high standards, while others are "given time". I'm sure he wouldn't have it any other way.

Big deal. So was Flower and countless others.

Add Trengove. I know we disagree about his pace, but I reckon he'll become a pivotal cog in our midfield too.

I'm underwhelmed. Granted he's a handy player, but despite his size he's a third stringer. He benefits from the heat going on to Walker and Betts, plus they have the handy link player Lynch. With Weideman coming along nicely, Watts improving and Garlett/Hogan I wouldn't have thought Jenkins would be on the radar. A quality key defender and/or gun mid is of more interest.

In a typical pre-show meeting to discuss the impending show's agenda Jono Brown says he's going to throw up a potential deal Freo could use to entice Hogan back home to WA. "Good one, Browny. We'll go with it." In the 24 hour news cycle that follows it gets saturated air time. The fact they opined it to be an unlikely scenario escaped attention. Meanwhile, in a pre-scheduled family visit to WA Hogan spends time with family and friends. The club has always been good to him like that. Nek minnit it's reported on a radio news segment Freo has offered "Melbourne's Jesse Hogan $15 mil over 10 years". It's also discussed ad nauseum on social forums and television programs. Less cognitive thinkers start pondering the unthinkable. They convince themselves Hogan will leave the Melbourne Football Club. Some posters exhibit the type of flatulence that would make an old Clydesdale proud.

I have no issue with GNF and never have, but it's hardly ground breaking news to suggest Hogan will sign this calendar year or that Prestia, whose family are coterie members and has been linked to Melbourne for years, will be at the Dees next year. I'd say both are more than likely.

EFA

Well I don't think you're insane, so I accept your "preference" is for him to stay. However, you said, "Stay or go i am fairly comfortable with where we sit." That's a theme I've read from others as well. And for the life of me I don't understand it.

I just don't understand this attitude. Hogan is incredibly important if you want to develop a premiership team. The last thing we can afford is to lose Hogan. Nothing would come close to compensating us. The ambivalence of some to Hogan and his importance astonishes me. With the midfield we're developing I've never been more confident of seeing my first flag in the next decade. Hogan is a pivotal cog in that ambition.

Why don't you ?

And their best players are their senior players (not necessarily on Saturday). They had 4 players older than our oldest and those 4 have stood them in good stead for a long time. Quality experience out on the field providing directing/coaching is invaluable. They certainly give better guidance than our leaders. Also, did they have 3 players under 5 games ? While their more senior players are better than ours their younger players do not match Hogan, Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca & Salem as a collective. And just because the opposition might be young, OR even younger, doesn't mean we won't have inconsistency. Our youth is a reason why we'll be inconsistent no matter the opposition, whether they're young like us on a given day, or not. I know whose list I'd prefer going forward.

No-one said we lost just because of inexperience. We lost because our midfield was beaten, we were outnumbered around the footy, we were out pressured and we didn't run hard enough defensively. We also played off our man too much. But, as stated, "young sides will have days like these". Our best and most important players are Hogan 21, Viney 22 and Gawn 24. Your leaders are usually your best players and the bulk of ours are young. I'm treating this group separately to others before the Roos era, because we've turned over 30 players. You can lump them in with previous regimes if you like. I couldn't care less, although I disagree. Once the bulk of our young midfield have played 50-60 games these types of results will become rare.

We were the second youngest team on the weekend and bottom 3 or 4 in games experience. We'll have other days like Saturday. There were only 7 players that played in the round 1 loss to St.Kilda in 2014. I'm treating the current group and list as quite separate to the team of even just 3 years ago. We've turned the list over and this rebuild has to be treated as (virtually) a separate entity. So I don't see the "trends and inherent problems" quite the same way you do. I see a 2 win/54% team that 50 games later is a 3/3 102% team. Brereton made the comment this afternoon that we're heading in the right direction, but any time we're looking at 3 in a row between now and round 22 2017 tip against us, because we're young, inexperienced and still learning our craft. It takes games and time. Hogan is smart and has a better handle on the list and its direction than you, me or anyone posting here. He's also been told by Goodwin that perseverance and endurance = satisfaction. He'll get much more satisfaction doing the hard yards than bailing to an already strong team. Goodwin's point being, "who cherished the flag last year more, Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell or James Frawley ? It's an obvious answer. Think about what that flag meant to the players that have been on the long journey compared to the fly in. We have to hope that Hogan wants to be part of the journey. I'm confident he will be. He loves the club and especially his mates at the club.