Qwerty30

The Irish are hardly in a position to judge though...

Their position may not be squeaky clean but it's far more impressive than what has been on show in the AFL/NRL.

I would guess this has been addressed (I only tap into this thread occasionally) but having Fletcher and Watson represent Australia would certainly spark interest from international media.

Playing banned atheletes would be the main topic when reporters quiz coaches and captain regarding the tour.

If there was an ASADA/WADA question overhanging an athlete or swimmer, would they be allowed to compete in further meets?

The difference between WADA and the AFL here is that WADA's integrity is not on the line - not unless they make it so. The AFL are just about discredited now, no matter what they do, in many people's eyes. WADA remains WADA, unless they chicken out and tell the world that they are actually toothless in the face of a big player. (Smiling with false teeth?)

AFL - integrity in tatters. WADA - the watchdog, though with credibility there to be destroyed, if they so choose.

I am not sure anyone comes out of this with their integrity intact. WADA won't escape the shortcomings of its representation in Australia via ASADA. They can't escape that they are joined at the hip in the publics eyes.

There is already questions about the leniency of the backdated penalties dealt out to the NRL players.

No matter whatever the AFL/ASADA and WADA do they will be subject to hostility from sections of the general public. There are not any protected species in this matter.

No he didn't. That player was Wade Lees who did unwittingly import a banned supplement and received what virtually amounted to a 2 year sanction.

Stand corrected on the Saad/Lees matter. Thanks for the correction.

Actually, there's an good amount of comment on this particular thread that's more informed and I suspect closer to the mark than some of the drivel you read in the written media.

I haven't read the whole 380+ pages of the thread (and I don't intend to either) but I have followed it for the past couple of months. There may have been a kernel of informed comment but it's been drown out by the sanctimonious ambulance chasing that's better suited with Russell Crowe in a Colosseum.

The appointment of neeld was made by one person one G Lyon, when the club was at a weak time.

He was appointed by the incumbent Board and I agree it was a weak time.

I didnt say politically pragmatic...i said politically palatable ....and pragmatically...minimal.

I said this advisedly . This is to say they will try to strike a balance between what they should do and what they want to do. What they should do is let ASADA deliberate and decide the penalty...AFL issue it. What the AFL will want is to send the EFC to the naughty corner til march and 'fine " players something negligable and a slight slap on the wrist.

The AFL has been playing funny buggers and 'mates' ever since they got whiff. The AFL are about damage control.. WADA/ASADA is about right and wrong. Vastly different things.

Well q30 if the players think its real now....they have a whole NEW reality coming their way

If the AFL are about damage control they will be doing what they should do. It's the quickest path to getting this resolved and moving on.

And ever since Evans departed EFC, we have Little that has fought city hall aggressively and disdainfully, we have had their 2014 coach refuse to pay a $30,000 fine and we have the James Hird saga/scandal. "Funny buggers" and "mates" you say..... Look I love a good conspiracy theory but it's always better with a bare modicum of facts.

And I think Demonland is the last place to warn others about reality!

No comparison between Neeld and Luke. One had no man management skills and Luke is brilliant at player management.

Agree. One coach was recruited at the end of a formal process, the other coach was appointed as a rushed knee jerked decision following one club's discussion with Mick Malthouse.

Good luck Luke. It's a challenging job with a thin list. You are going to have to really cook the job badly to bring any possible comparison with Neeld.

This may sound incredulous but I suspect once the tribunal starts and the penalties start it might just turn very "real' for these players. i say that for they are in some kind of stupified trance currently under the spells of the EFC and AFLPA.

When they find themselves bounce off the pavement after being chucked out for however long it will dawn on them its really about them. always was. Some will think , belatedly, why didn't I check this stuff out. Why did I trust everyone blindly, why was I fed crap , and more crap .,.....and why did I swallow ??

After a few pick themselves up and smell the reality ...all bets will be off.

Strangley it'll be a case of United they fall , Divided they'll stand !!

From hearing from a parent of an EFC player some months ago, it's been very real for them for the past two years. Ryder is one of the more emotive episodes in this.

It will be interesting how they will approach this as they have been let down by the Club during this whole saga notwithstanding the onus is on them. And during the past 2 years they have been poorly advised by the Club.

I feel the AFL will look to a politically palatable and pragmatically , a minimal, outcome. This has always been the hope of the EFC. It holds some sway here and has 'mates"

Fortunately the AFL DOESN'T have the final say in this matter.

If the AFL are going to look for a politically pragmatic and palatable solution then it's not going to be a cheap minimal outcome.

And Blind Freddie would know that the AFL tribunal decision will be challengeable by ASADA.

I not sure either that EFC hold any sway here at all. Given the abominable and ridiculous strategy undertaken by Little, I don't think they have any "mates" at the AFL. I would have thought one of the key objectives once this saga has eventually been settled is that the shredded relationship of EFC with the AFL and other Clubs needs to be repaired and this won't happen with Little being involved.

This is now a matter of each player vs AFL tribunal not the Club.

Looking at the NRL penalties, I think the players will get 12 months backdated to the issuance of the initial SCNs (mid-June). They would then miss half the 2015 season. If the players are found guilty the AFL tribunal may try to get away with the minimum.

I reckon ASADA will appeal if the bans are less than 2 years. They'll go in hard as they did in both Matt Clark's and Saad's case.

Given the form that ASADA have shown in respect of the NRL, I would suspect that they would accept the 12 months backdated.

I don't think Saad is a reliable precedent because didn't Saad get suspended for importation of a banned substance. Whether he took it is neither here nor there. Under the law if you import you are assumed to have consumed.

All credit to her for not focusing on who has which pick and simply ranked the players as she sees it. One of the few unbiased journos around!

AFL draft a level playing field for recruiters

She is just one of a number of journos who has an opinion on the draft. They get some right and they get some wrong.

In ranking who she thinks are the top 20 players she just did not line them up alongside the clubs draft order. Nothing special there.

Would anybody trust anything decided by any AFL Tribunal given the history of the other AFL Tribunal that hands out match-day penalties. If that mob were in charge, the players would get anywhere between a pat on the back to a 5 years ban for identical violations.

At least this one is not made up of ex-players and hangers-on so there is some hope.

Yes. Because the AFL is carefully under the watch of ASADA/WADA in this investigation I doubt this will fulfil some of the over concern here.

However given the rather generous concessions given to the NRL it would not surprise me if a concession on the 2 years is given her with ASADAs tacit approval.

And if you have an issue with that it's an ASADA issue.

Watch the entire Seinfeld and Buffy series on DVD with the Professor.

Also help Jazza milk a few of his cows.

I may even watch a few drug free games of AFL football.

What are your plans Q30?

Well done. Your future looks assured.

oh and this

He is only about 12 months behind the rest of the football world on this.

He has a had another Blind Freddie moment

I think it's great. When the penalties are handed out, Hird is banned, ESSENDON goes broke, the board resigns en mass and are charged, Connolly and Robinson will both be totally discredited.

The whole AFL is discredited by this. The damage to the standing and brand of AFL has been significantly impaired by the last 2 years.

And your scenario is hardly good for MFC long term as its already on an AFL lifeline.

As far as armageddon outcomes be careful what you wish for.

I dont want Essendon going broke, i dont want the AFL and footy continually damaged by this.

I want whatever players are involved sanctioned appropriately and sensibly in light to the circumstances.

However, I want all those officials involved with this appalling saga gone.

For the good of the game, EFC needs to clean its decks at thre Board and key post positions and move forward.

And as for journalist while Murdoch is still on this planet, you are not going to get good journalism at all.

A pound is just not enough penalty from the 2012 Essendon Players.

AFL Tribunal will be a joke.

Its the WADA/ASADA appeal of the AFL Tribunal penalty that I am waiting for.

I am not sure how you will fill in your time when this is all over.

I think it clear that the AFL tribunal will dish out the required ASADA punishment.

It's in nobodies interest to prolong this saga further than it has to be.

There is no incentive for the AFL squibbing on the Tribunal penalties. There is nothing in it for ASADA and the players either.

Let's just get it done and get on with the football.

But if there is an justice then Hird Thompson Reid and Little should have nothing to do with AFL football or any other sport.

Chill out guys.

The players are still to face the AFL Tribunal.

You'll get your pound of flesh!

I'm with you - I want the best at our club - if they happen to be ex MFc then well and good.

I also think that we get a distorted picture on how good assistants really are - firstly we have little to no insight but secondly how much easier would it be to be the midfield coach at the Hawks compared to the Dees ?

For that reason I really rate Clarkson as a coach as he took an ordinary Hawks and turned them into a powerhouse.

I think you are spot on about assistant coaches and what we know about them on DL.

Despite all the bravado shown, unless you observing things from the inner sanctum you don't know.

Clarkson is certainly a fine coach. He is also backed up by a top notch administration which no MFC coach in the last 20 years or so have had. But I can't help thinking that the Hawks were blessed with early picks in 2001 and 2004 that have set them up so well.

Well, I will say two potentially. I know Fagan is viewed as part of the glue that keeps Hawthorn together and he was Neale's right hand man throughout his tenure.

Agree Colin about Fagan. He is highly regarded at the Hawks and shares in their success.

In respect of Clarkson, was he runner for MFC when his playing days finished?

I am thinking 98-99 years.

Well done to him - He is one ex - Demon that I have care factor zero about and I am not even sure why.

One of the most talented players we have had in the past 15 years but in my opinion cut some crucial corners in delivering consistently.

Nevertheless I wish him well.

And I would only want him back at the Club in a specific role if he is indeed the best person for the role.

I can't understand the headlong rush to have a plethora of ex players back at the club.

EFC has shown it's no surefire recipe for success.

With 55,000 members and a full stadium each home game i think it is extremely worrying that a club makes a $2 Mill loss.

.

I agree. It's especially worrying when you don't have facts at hand to determine why the operating loss and you have to make things up.

i believe Thompson had a lot less to do with the whole saga than Goodwin, and i sure hope we have checked out our position if this mini series really gets dirty.

Doc Reid is in his own league. How the club doctor isn't up on criminal charges astounds me

As General Manager of the EFC football department his hands have the same blood on them that curses Hird and should damn Reid.

I am not sure why you want to give Thompson a lesser ride than Goodwin when he had a more senior role of responsibility.

He is on the record as challenging what went on but did not follow through.

[quote name="why you little" post="1025999" timestamp="1415837386"

A dam shame if he leaves the industry permanently.

I think Scully will be a very good player but this is somewhat distorted by the overs GWS paid for him. Since they had to pay someone I don't think the overs paid came at any significant cost to GWS's list.

Hogan is yet to play a game for us but looks to be a very good player and the first genuine KPF prospect since Neitz.

I think in 5 years time both Melbourne amd GWS will look back and be happy with our respective players.

Given what GWS have outplayed on Scully, he is going to have to be Ablettesque to repay them. He isn't.

And it's a no brainer it's costing GWS. By paying Scully $$$$$$$$ they don't have that to pay others.

And it's likely as the rest of the list develops those players who are seen to contributing more to GWS than Scully will wonder why they are subsidising a lesser player.

MFC may well be happy with Hogan and/ or Toumpas in due course but I can't see how Scully will not cost GWS heaps over the course of the contract with providing the dividends on the investment.

Toumpas will be okay.

His biggest failure thus far has been in being picked ahead of Jack Viney's best mate, who has turned out to be a future superstar.

Not one club blinked when we called out his name at pick 4 in that draft. Some posters here, rather conveniently, seem to consistently overlook this.

His biggest failure is his own. He is yet to make a decent impression at AFL so far. I know it's early days but he is coming off a low base.

I don't know why you make a point about the blinking. I bet you weren't there at the draft on the day. There was sufficient consternation at the time that given what we knew about Wines....we overlooked him. And unless Toumpas turns it around significantly it will be another lost opportunity that haunts us.

Unbelievably, you could argue that gws are winning the Scully defection!

We've got nothing so far out of Hogan, Barry, or Toumpas, and the cash saved by not having Scully was splurged on Clark...suffice to say that didn't go to plan.

We sure can pick em!

Ahhhh! No you couldn't.

GWS have tied themselves to a LT financial millstone who is at best a mediocre player with little leadership potential to offset the yawning gap between what he is paid. And they paid handsomely in giving up Hogan and pick 4. There is an issue with what MFC did with pick 4 but that should not distract away from the fact we dodged a bullet with Scully.

Hogan has missed one season through a collision injury and already he is dissed! Demonland at this best. The jury is still out on Toumpas (and there is no doubt if we took Wines you would be chortling). Barry is inconsequential to the deal

We have no room i know, but i would love Thompson & Roos to work together

They are on the same page.

I wouldn't.

Thompson does not share the limelight with anyone.

And for all the condemnation of Hird (which is right) I am truly stuffed how Thompson escapes sanction for his part of the Essendon saga.