Qwerty30

Thats because they put too much weight on reflected success, corporate speak spin and glossy powerpoint presentations. The people hiring should look deeper into the individual qualities. I am sure there are potentially great assistant coaches wallowing away at unsuccessful clubs who just need the right opportunity but likely never will. Bulldogs fell into the trap in thinking because he was at Geelong he must be good just like us with Neeld and also Sanderson. Reflected success seems to be a mandatory qualification at some clubs.

How would you know what the actual process at each club? In many cases the process is quite rigorous including "looking deeper into individual qualities" process.

And the three coaches sacked this year were all "potentially great assistant coaches wallowing away at unsuccessful clubs".

Neeld had the right vision and direction, but was just a bad people person. His vision to bring in experience and install discipline and defensive strategies is not all that different to what Roos is trying to do.

Its not all that special either. All coaches are seeking to do that.

Given the way he graced and dominated the game at the MCG for long, I would name both wings the Robbie Flower wing.

The claim that Longmire and Lyon have been "out-coached" sits at odds with their records. Of the last 6 grand finals, only one hasn't included a "Roos protégé".

Also an odd claim given that Longmire has been recently voted "coach of the year" by his peers - for the second time in 3 years.

Longmires record is better than Lyon's no doubt.

And only one GF has been won by a Roos protege. And the common theme in all those losses they cant kick winning score. In particular Lyons strangulation of games is being picked apart with the evolution of game tactics.

And its interesting this year's coach of the year didnt see the 2014 GF result coming. Its monkey on his back given the Swans had bought their way to GF and then as raging favourites gave little more than a whimper.

IIRC the Stynes/Schwab administration had a similar impact in the 12 months after it took over from the Gardner administration that left the club bleeding with $5m black hole in debt and according to Demetriou a club that stood for nothing. You really need to take a long term view and look at things from the perspective of cause and effect if you really want to understand how things come to pass.

I can only judge Jackson on what he has done to date. While MFC are a LT recovery, case he has at least stabilised the operation and started to put the steps in place. And I did take a LT view of Schwab when i referred to the place as a shambles when he left after 4,5 years.This is on the back of overseeing a salary cap breaches in a previous stanza with the Club.

The story of Hird is becoming very clear.

You mean it wasnt for the past 18 months?

I think we have had 336 pages of this thread calling this out.

It's just that I don't accept the narrow view of history that goes with the acceptance of the theory.

Nevertheless, the same thing holds for the Essendon saga and, contrary to what you say, I do believe Caro's sources and her agenda are very relevant to how she presents her narrative because of her agenda and the way she tries to push her opinions as fact. There's a lawyer by the name of Martin Hardie who I've quoted here in the past. His views are unambiguously pro-Essendon and he's writing a book on this saga that will no doubt paint James Hird as an angel right out of heaven. I won't believe him either.

With due respect I have not given a view of history like yourself other than to say that Schwab was an incompetent CEO and the Club was in a dire situation where the AFL bailed it out of some of its erroneous commitments (Schwab, Neeld

and others) and provides special compensation now to finance a messiah coach.

But back to Essendon.......

Nevertheless, the same thing holds for the Essendon saga and, contrary to what you say, I do believe Caro's sources and her agenda are very relevant to how she presents her narrative because of her agenda and the way she tries to push her opinions as fact.

All i have said is that Caro would appear to have numerous sources and trying to assume it was the AFL in this case may well be ill informed. And certainly in respect of the Essendon's saga you would be in no better position than any other poster here to determine opinion from the actual fact. You dont like Caro's style and had your feathers ruffled in the past. In respect of Essendon she has been firm and clear on the Essendon in respect of the complete failure of the governance arrangements over player health and safety. If that's an agenda then its a clear one and she has been right on the journey through this and correctly sought to hold the EFC Board, Executive, Hird, Dank and Reid accountable.

I would happily offer Ryan Ferguson

Disagree

Try

Coach

CEO

List Manager

Head recruiter

And who appoints the Coach and CEO?

I couldn't give a toss how we win, just bloody win. That's the aim of the game, FCS. Given where we've been, I can't believe people are whingeing about game style.

It's just more of the same carp that we have been seeing for so long.

Oh, it's not making us win either....I mean that is the aim of the game.

Maybe game result could be linked to game style and people don't like it....just saying.

Whether she has the AFL as one of her sources is neither here nor there. And it did not need an "agenda" for all to see Schwab's incompetence.

As for PJ....in 12 months he has slashed administrative fat out of the operating costs, turned a small profit in poor onfield year, put in place a coaching succession plan, rebuilt AFL confidence in the running of the Club and most of all prevented the club from repeatedly shooting itself in the foot with a range off field.

And thanks for the recent history of the club. I trust your journalistic friends will check the quality and source of the information before they commit to print.

who has coached a better season at the MFC (with a worse list mind you)

Bailey or Roos

At this stage Bailey.....with a worst list.

For mine 2015 will be a very important year for Roos.

I can understand that Roos was trying to block holes in the MFC ship this year but we cant prolong this defensive only game style.

It wont be successful and as others have pointed out......its awful to watch.

I want MFC to win.....but I also want to enjoy the spectacle of winning.

True and very admirable of her but, as we know, it's not the first time she was caught out ... and caught out she was, which really made the admission necessary. Her problem was that she failed to get confirmation of Hird's sacking from a primary source and went with the story anyway.

Caro's main source of information is said to be the AFL itself and, in this case, her informant might have believed that Hird was gone but it seems that in the final moment the sacking didn't happen, perhaps on legal advice.

Caro does get things wrong from time to time. She's not infallible and, of course, she writes opinion pieces as well so whilst she might have flawed views from time to time, she rarely finds the need to apologise for those.

On the supplements/drug saga she's benefitted from some excellent journalists who work also for Fairfax but she recently got things badly wrong on the FDA status of AOD9604 and I don't recall her publishing a correction or retraction. Her agenda in this saga has been directed mainly at the golden boy and that's where in my view, she's been exposed the most (much in the same way that her agenda coloured her reporting and views on tanking).

At least, as long as the current hierarchy at Melbourne is in bed with the powers at the AFL, she's been reasonably soft on us. I don't know yet whether that's a blessing or not.

She makes fewer errors than her contemporaries and when she does err she normally calls it out. Many of her peers in the industry dont do that at all and they have more chance

And you dont know who her sources are but you wish to paint a narrative to back your view. Its quite plausible that her sources on Hird have come from inside the inner sanctum of EFC who for a long time have been at legal logger heads with the AFL. We dont know.

And I think Patrick Smith on Friday provided a very good explanation of the disposition of Hird. From that article there is no doubt that the EFC Board want to be rid of Hird but it would appear Hird wont go voluntarily and will sue for heaven and earth if sacked. Hird is cornered and friendless and is rolling the dice on matters in a last ditch effort to reclaim some ground. But it is consistent across the media (sans Robbo) that if EFC is going to sack Hird then Hird will take them with him.

So long as MFC does not return to the shambles it was before Jackson righted the ship, there will be nothing to report.

The same cannot be said for either Adelaide or Essendon at the moment.

The truly annoying thing about Caro is that her whole journalistic method is to report ONLY on sackings.

Every article from her in the past fortnight has been about "sackin" Hird, the Essendon Board, the Adelaide Board etc. That's why we copped such a shellacking from her last year. Now we don't have anyone to sack she doesn't write about us.

Not a single article about the actual scandal of this drug taking. That was left to Emma Quale and John Pierik. The biggest story in football for probably 50 years and she hasn't written about it!

When she writes about ANY goings on at Richmond then I'll take her seriously.

Thats rubbish.

Here is a link to the Age website on Caroline Wilson

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/by/caroline-wilson

A clear case of seeing what you want to see.

You are still smarting from the shell lacking she rightly gave MFC last year.

And she is now turning the blowtorch on EFC and Adelaide.

And she was the first and foremost journalist last year that called for James Hird and others to stand aside for the appalling disaster that is Essendon.

And a good deal of botox (or photoshop) in the accompanying photo

Relevance?

I believe we've got 3 out of 4 on that one, jury is still out on Bartlett. Not doubting him, just at this stage there isn't much to suggest he'll be any better than any of his predecessors.

And you're dead right, we haven't been in a position where we've nailed every one of those roles in decades.

At this stage, Bartlett isnt any worse than some of his predecessors..

And FWIW, I think we have nailed 2 out of 4 with the CEO and Captain (Jones).

yes talent is the important thing. but who chooses the young talent? And who employs the people who choose the talent. And further to that, who creates a stable environment that talent wants to join?

It all starts at the top.

Football Dept not admin.

See my post on the 4 key positions in the club.

It's not admin......it's leadership at each critical level.

And it starts from the Board.

And this isn't?

If you think the demise of the club is a fait accompli then logically you should be giving the game away. It will only hurt more the longer you stay..

Having board members with business and community influence is all well and good but how long has it been since we've had a truly competent coach and CEO working towards the same end? A long damn time is the answer.

This is every bit as important a piece of the puzzle, and I would argue moreso. Onfield success is what will lift the club out of the mire. That is the club's core business. From that, everything else follow, including attracting supporters and members. We are "Melbourne" ffs. That is a large pool of youngsters to attract to our club. We just have to stop playing rubbish football and create a strong, stable environment for the players.

Roos' real test is coming in his second year, but no-one can honestly say that Jackson has put a foot wrong since he's arrived. My confidence in their abilities is what is keeping my faith, because I know how important their roles are in transforming a football club.

The four most important positions in an AFL are

Chairman/President

Coach

CEO

Captain

Successful clubs that win premierships have these positions filled by competent experienced and capable people.

How long since MFC got all four of those positions right?

I can't recall a time when it's occurred in the past 40 years.

Happy with two years, I believe he is what we need now but his defensive style may be dated, his protégés Longmire and Lyon have been out coached recently with better sides.

He is no God, just a one time premiership coach who bailed on the Swans.

Maybe after three years a younger coach like Goodwin will be the answer.

I agree with your summary Bluey.

I like slot of things Roos has done so far but for mine the jury is out on the defensive game style we are playing. I hope it evolves in 2015.

As a club that could kick more than 100 points in a game it was embarrassing and boring to watch.

I think it's also right to be skeptical on the messiah aura around Roos.

Clubs including this one have been duped because they put blind faith in past player messiahs only to be badly let down by the reality of the situation.

Administration is everything. Ask any player associated with a strong club about what brought the team success. It starts with a strong admin.

.

Leigh Matthews says that the ultimate ingredient for premiership success is 90% the talent on your list. The rest of the ingredients including coaching, admin and a touch of luck at times makes up the remaining 10%.

Strong and competent club admin is important but it is not everything.

You are right in that MFC have been badly hamstrung by incompetent administrations. But that only been part of our problems.

I'm with you C&B, this succession thing is BS.

Not happy we've locked in Goodwin either.

Who knows who will be available in a year or 2?

Reakon Roos is overrated too.

He was in the right place at the right time at the Swans.

Inherited Eades list.

Used Lyons game plan.

Handed over to Longmire when the list aged and become time to rebuild.

So you are not happy with Roos and you think he is overrated. Fair enough.

You're also not happy with Goodwin and succession plans.

So what's your solution?

Perhaps, but there is a stench to all of this that isn't right.

In other words you don't know.......

Neil Craig?

he won't be so accomodating when he is playing against Hawkins & Clark in a backline.

Yes. As usual will be out bodied by the bigger stronger player.

But I would expect their jumpers to be scragged and harshly pulled.

Given where it's at, the EFC board will sack Hird. This whole saga including the ridiculous and contemptuous re appointment, support and financing of Hird has been the most appalling episode I can remember in VFL/AFL football.

Once the EFC Board have finally sunk the knife into Hird the next step on their agenda is arrange for their prompt and immediate resignations and replacements on the Board. Little should show more balls than Hird and resign for leafing this fiasco.

Surely within an alleged AFL powerhouse there are people with the appropriate governance ethos experience and integrity to bring EFC back into the AFL fold as a functional and ethical club. For the very least for the good of the game.

And could the new Board actually live and breathe the mantra "putting the players health and welfare first"

And once Little has been evicted then they can pension off the good Doctor Reid as well.

If hirdy is sacked tomorrow, will he sue for wrongful dismissal?

He will be paid out for the remaining contract payments.

Given he is to appeal the Federal Court decision, he won't be able to afford the legal fees to launch a wrongful dismissal.

I reckon if he appeals the case then I wonder if EFC will cover his share of ASADAs legal costs that were awarded against him.