BURGATRON - THE INTERVIEW

[Demonland 73,140]

Matt Granland of SEN had the originator of the Burgatron AFL Phantom Draft, Matt Burgan as his studio guest today. Pinball Wizard has put together this summary of the programme.

SEN INTERVIEW WITH THE BURGATRON

Matt Granland wanted to talk to Burgan about the forthcoming national draft because it was something that brought out some good news stories about the game and in the light of the negative stories like the Ben Cousins saga it was refreshing to talk about something on a more positive note. He congratulated Burgan for his award at this year’s AFL media awards for his work on the AFL Draft and asked about the concept of the Phantom Draft.

Burgan said that he first put it together in 2000 on the AFL website and since then it has grown from that point. Basically, it's a guide - a lot of research is put into it in terms of how it will pan out and every attempt is made to make it an accurate guide as possible. In reality however, you would probably have a better chance of winning Tattslotto than predicting every single selection. You get 1,500 to 1,700 names nominating and you might get a situation where one club likes a player and takes him at number 70 and there are still instances of that happening today.

Granland asked about the positive news side of the draft and Burgan said that the draft is growing and interest in the draft is growing. Its importance is absolutely critical terms of improving the list. Look at Geelong for example with their drafts of 1999 to 2001. The real bulk of their premiership players of this year came from those drafts. Of course there were a lot of other factors involved in building their list but that was integral to that premiership.

Granland said he had heard one official say that draft day and getting it right is second only to grand final day and if you have a look at Geelong's grand final team – they drafted Jimmy Bartel, the Brownlow Medallist, James Kelly, Gary Ablett was drafted father/son and Steve Johnson who won the Norm Smith Medal all in the one year. This shows how important the draft is.

Burgan: Exactly and if you can pick up guys of that calibre in one meeting it can really set you up and if you look at Hawthorn in recent years they've picked a few guys in one draft – Franklin, Roughhead and Lewis and the key is to keep them together long term and make sure you can retain that group and they don't get poached. Managing your list is such a critical part of the game.

Burgan was asked whether when researching for his Phantom Draft, he spoke to a lot of the club officials and recruiters?

Burgan: As many as I can.

Granland Were they open?

Burgan: As a group I find they're absolutely fantastic. Some of them are fantastic in the information that they reveal and I know that it's factual because it's proven that way on draft day. Some of them like to keep their cards close to their chests and I perfectly understand that. Some are just massive information soakers and they just want to get anything from anywhere and whether it's right or wrong it's another piece of the puzzle they can then further research themselves or store away for future reference.

Granland said he was staggered by the number of recruiting staff each club had and Burgan replied that it's growing annually. Some clubs have got a dozen including part timers. Every club has its recruiting guy and others who are right into it as well e.g. West Coast have Trevor Woodhouse in WA and a person in Victoria. Hawthorn has Chris Pelchan who oversees recruiting while Gary Buckenara does the West Coast of Australia and Graeme Wright does the East Coast of Australia. Clubs are starting to structure things differently too – they want to see every part of the country explored and some clubs are going to Ireland and want to explore that as well and some are seeing the fruits of that as well.

Granland Let's talk about this year's draft. Matt Kreuzer is the name on everybody's lips at the moment. He'll probably go to Carlton?

Burgan: That's the one that I'm probably quite certain about. I'd be very surprised if Kreuzer wasn't number one but it's interesting in doing the research that some people are saying guys like Trent Cotchin and Cale Morton could clearly go number 1 as well. You're always going to get a good player and even if 3 or 4 are outstanding the reality is you can only get one number 1. I think Kreuzer will go at number 1 but there are definitely clubs out that that have said that if they had pick number 1 they'd certainly look at Cotchin or Morton as well. But for Carlton, I'd definitely say Kreuzer.

Granland How does Kreuzer stack up compared to previous number 1 picks through the years?

Burgan: It's a little difficult to assess because you can only compare on what they've done in junior days and Kreuzer ticks all the boxes. He's achieved plenty as a junior footballer and really is a standout in a lot of ways. There are not a lot of ruckmen bordering 200cm who are good and of that size. They're a rare commodity and that's why they go early.

A question was taken from a listener who is a Hawthorn supporter and who asked about Ryan Ferguson. Burgan explained that a few years ago there was swap being organised between Melbourne and Hawthorn whereby Ferguson was to go to the Hawks and Brad Sewell to Melbourne but Ferguson was in contract and didn't want to go. Ferguson played the last seven matches for Melbourne, he's had a ton of injuries. He's actually an extremely courageous player, very underrated in terms of his courage but hasn’t quite cemented his spot. Hawks may look at him again but he hadn't heard anything.

Matt Granland: Richmond have got pick number two. There's a couple of midfielders like Cotchin or Morton whose brother Mitch came across from West Coast. Would they take him or stay with a local boy?

Burgan: At this stage it's got to be out of those two and the fact that Mitch has gone in throws a bit of intrigue into the situation. It's a tough one to get a bit of a handle on which way it's going to go. You would think in some ways that with Mitch coming across he might go. He's a tall midfielder, can play forward and had a cracking championships, won the Larke Medal for the best player in Division 1 so he's a great prospect but whether he goes 2, or it's Cotchin, the Victorian local, it's still a very hard one to know.

Granland: Trent Cotchin, the Victorian. Everyone's talking him up too.

Burgan: That's right. He’s a quality kid. Both he and Morton are both really impressive kids. Cotchin was on crutches at the draft camp but he kept presenting all the time and wanted to be involved and to do anything he could while he was up there. It will be interesting to see and at this stage it will be Cotchin/Morton or Morton/Cotchin.

Granland: Do you find many of the youngsters have a look at the Phantom Draft before draft day?

Burgan: They do a little bit these days. You meet some of them at the draft camp and they ask about it sometimes and sometimes when they're drafted it does get talked about.

A caller asked about the Victorian Under 18 boys being boys were smashed by WA.

Burgan: WA were great. Rhys Palmer was outstanding and he is looming as a top 10 prospect. He was unlucky to miss out on the Larke Medal to Morton by one vote. WA's midfield was just outstanding. It had a genuine AFL feel and some of those midfielders didn't look like juniors. They looked like they were playing an incredibly slick brand of footy.

Another caller asked whether the Pies could pick up a good ruckman with their selection?

Burgan: Collingwood's first pick is at number 31 and they're just going to have to wait and see what happens, to see who's fallen through. They will be doing an enormous amount of research to see who might still be available. Sometimes, some good players might fall through. A few years ago Cameron Wood, who's now there (at Collingwood) was expected to go around the 7 or 8 mark and slipped through to 18. The Brisbane Lions couldn't believe it so they pounced on him. Sometimes players do get through unexpectedly.

Granland: We've mentioned Kreuzer, Cotchin, Morton and Palmer but what are some of the other names that we are going to see in the top 10?

Burgan: Those players that you mentioned are going to shape it but there are some others. Guys like Brad Ebert SA's best prospect this year. He's the cousin of Port Adelaide's Brett. Also Cyril Rioli is an interesting one. He's a standout from the Northern Territory and his uncles are the great Maurice Rioli and Michael Long and he's going to be in that sort of mix. It will be interesting to see exactly where but he's another one top watch out for early. There are others such as Lauchlan Henderson, one of the talls from the Geelong Falcons. I think he'll create a bit of interest early and will certainly be a top 10 or 12 pick. Alex Rance is another boy from WA and he's a tall. He'll probably be in the top dozen or so.

A caller asked about Pat Vezpremi and mentioned that he had heard he was a Luke Hodge type of player.

Burgan: Vezpremi has had a bit of an injury with a shoulder. He's going to be a top 20 pick. He's a little difficult to assess but between 10 and 20. Clubs in the mix in that area such as West Coast at 13 or Melbourne at 14 would probably get him.

Another caller asked what does it mean when it's said that players are "putting themselves in the draft late"? Burgan responded that this probably means a reference to players with previous AFL list experience nominating for the PSD to help clubs draft them as a delisted uncontracted player in the draft to make it easier for a particular club to draft them.

Granland asked about the kids coming out of Qld this year. Were they as good as last year's batch?

Burgan: Last year was fantastic and it won't be as good as last year when Ricky Petterd was picked in the late 20's. A couple of names to look out for are Sam Reid, Brendan Whitecross and another kid who went to the draft camp called John Williams who played in their Under 21’s. He's a bit older and had a bit of a shoulder injury.

Granland When does your Phantom Draft go up?

Burgan: It goes up on the AFL website on the Thursday before draft day. It can’t be any earlier because the final nominations for delisted players takes place the day before.

The next caller asked about whether the Melbourne Football Club might draft some talls like Ben McEvoy and Dawson Simpson.

Burgan: I'm having trouble where to fit McEvoy. He’s a ruckman/forward 199cm. I don't think he'd be at Melbourne at number 4 but if he was still available at 14 then maybe. Dawson Simpson is a 205cm ruckman and about the tallest player in the mix this year. He's an interesting one. I'm a little bit divided on where he might go because players of that height are so hard to find. He could go at 21 but clubs these days are taking tall ruckmen through the rookie system. Dean Cox went to West Coast as a rookie and Simpson could be fascinating to watch because all clubs need talls.

Granland then asked him to go through the other clubs and this is essentially a summary –

Geelong have got four live picks.. They've already committed to Adam Donohue under the father/son at 59 at the moment (a second list lodgement is coming out next week that might change the order a little).

Collingwood have 31 and 47 – it's difficult to say who they're going to pick. At 47 they might have someone specific in mind.

Bombers have pick 6. It's been a bit of an indifferent pick. The best pick has been James Walker of Fremantle. The talk with the Bombers is midfield pace or a taller running defender.

Hawthorn – have been a big player in the draft in the last couple of years. This year they only have three picks at this stage. At this stage I can't quite get a handle on the way they're going to go – a tall defender perhaps.

Blues – After number one, their next pick is 36 which is a little like the Collingwood situation with 31.

Kangaroos – also have three picks and don't enter till pick 15. In that first batch they have to wait and see who slides through. They'll still get a quality player.

Tigers – after 2, they have a priority pick at 18, then 50 and 62. They're going to great player at number 2 but they will also miss out on a great player. That's the way it goes.

WCE – have picks 3, 13, 20 and 22 which puts them in the best position which is a reflection of losing Judd, probably the games best player. To have four picks inside 22, every club will be envious. Will they stick with a local? There's a stack of WA kids going to get drafted anyway because WA's blessed with great talent this year. There's a school of thought that if you pick the best player and he does want to go home, you'll be well compensated if and when that happens.

Dockers – have six picks starting at 7. Suggest they would pass on their last pick to get Kepler Bradley in the PSD.

Port Adelaide – had a lot of picks last year and did well with late picks like Westhoff but this year. Local knowledge helped them through this.

Adelaide have six picks. Have used one to elevate Taylor Walker, a NSW scholarship player. Their first pick is at ten and I'm not sure yet what they'll do. They might be hoping to pounce on Ebert.

Swans have also elevated a scholarship boy and have only a couple of live choices and will hope for a slider as well.

Brisbane enter at pick 8. Will probably look at some of the Queensland boys with their mid picks.

Granland: What do you think on the draft overall?

Burgan: It's a mixed view because although not regarded as strong as last year but others think there might be some good ones to get in the mid 40's.

Granland: Which is your best pick in one of your Phantom Drafts?

Burgan: I was really happy to pick Sean Rusling early a few years ago. I'd heard some things about him and went for him to be selected early and I was also happy about picking Andrew Collins to Richmond last year at 73.

See: Burgatron VII – the full list (2006 Draft) and watch for Burgatron VIII on Thursday 22 November on www.afl.com.au.

Also coming soon on Demonland - Stevo looks at melbournefc's draft picks 14 and 21 and Melon's Phantom Draft (top 21)

[Mister Ed 317]

Good interview but it really doesn't throw very much light on who the Demosn will pick at #4.

[John Dee 445]

Good interview but it really doesn't throw very much light on who the Demosn will pick at #4.

I think he more or less covered it; we will get whoever is left from Kreuzer, Corchin, Palmer or Masten.

[sylvinator 96]

I think he more or less covered it; we will get whoever is left from Kreuzer, Corchin, Palmer or Masten.

number 1 is definitely Kruiser.

is Richmond go Morton pick 2, WestCoast will 100% go for Cotchin at 3 because he's the next best available, no matter whether he's victorian or not.

so, wat i am hoping for, is Richmond go for Cotchin pick 2, which is very likely.

it is highly unlikely that WestCoast would then pick up Morton for 2 reasons. Firstly, they have had huge problems with the Morton family, and only this season was forced to trade Mitch because of these problems. Secondly, having just lost Judd and Cousins, WestCoast would probably like to replace them with an inside midfielder who can win his own ball- ala Masten.

This would leave Morton to slip through to pick 4, which would be bloody awesome. imo he's the best midfielder available in the draft. True, he's an outside, classy type player, however we need one of these to replace Johnstone, and to compliment our hardnuts in Mclean, Sylvia, Jones and Moloney. Morton is exactly what we're looking for.

otherwize, we can definitely be happy with Masten or Palmer, but i'd definitely prefer Morton.

[Hulett Packard III 166]

number 1 is definitely Kruiser.

is Richmond go Morton pick 2, WestCoast will 100% go for Cotchin at 3 because he's the next best available, no matter whether he's victorian or not.

so, wat i am hoping for, is Richmond go for Cotchin pick 2, which is very likely.

it is highly unlikely that WestCoast would then pick up Morton for 2 reasons. Firstly, they have had huge problems with the Morton family, and only this season was forced to trade Mitch because of these problems. Secondly, having just lost Judd and Cousins, WestCoast would probably like to replace them with an inside midfielder who can win his own ball- ala Masten.

This would leave Morton to slip through to pick 4, which would be bloody awesome. imo he's the best midfielder available in the draft. True, he's an outside, classy type player, however we need one of these to replace Johnstone, and to compliment our hardnuts in Mclean, Sylvia, Jones and Moloney. Morton is exactly what we're looking for.

otherwize, we can definitely be happy with Masten or Palmer, but i'd definitely prefer Morton.

He didn't even mention Masten by name. Wonder if he rates him?

[demonfanjezza 1]

Interesting, thanks for the info, hardly get any info here in sydney apart from demonland