"Start killed us" - Daniher

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This isn't correct, Godfrey plays a tagger or run-with role, if you want to be that specific he is most likely replacing Bartram. Regardless one or two players shouldn't make such a huge impact onthe skill of the whole team.

And for the record, I have never called for Daniher to be sacked mid season. Before round one I stated on this site that i doubted his abilities but I have always maintained that he should be able to see through to the end of his contract, not sure where you got that from.

You are right about Batram being out. So for starters Mclean, Rivers, Neitz, Batram, Robbo, Whelan, Jones, Green have missed considerable football this year. Add to that we are nursing Moloney, Sylvia through residual OP and they have been clearly underdone. Add to that Pickett who has overfed himself and gone missing. Its hardly one or two players and when you see what we have had to replace them with you are bring in lesser skilled players into the side. Tts simple coverging the loss of talent from the team. Its that simple.

My comment about ND was a general one and I wonder what purpose your angle is seeking to deny the fundamental impact of the injuries this year.

[timD 994]

RR, I agree about the questionable value of mid-season sackings. The footy dept has had a horrid year, and we need a calm, rationale and 'ruthless' process of decision making around coach and players. Heads rolling now does little but make a bad season worse.

[Jarka 767]

You are right about Batram being out. So for starters Mclean, Rivers, Neitz, Batram, Robbo, Whelan, Jones, Green have missed considerable football this year. Add to that we are nursing Moloney, Sylvia through residual OP and they have been clearly underdone. Add to that Pickett who has overfed himself and gone missing. Its hardly one or two players and when you see what we have had to replace them with you are bring in lesser skilled players into the side. Tts simple coverging the loss of talent from the team. Its that simple.

My comment about ND was a general one and I wonder what purpose your angle is seeking to deny the fundamental impact of the injuries this year.

Where have I said that the injuries we've had have not impacted us this year? Don't misquote me to serve your own argument.

How many games did Green miss? 2 Jones 1. Whelan 3, Bartram would have been considered a first round pick except for his poor skills, so him being injured didn't impact us with regards to skill. Moloney is more of an impact player, not a skilled one, ditto for Neitz. Yes McLean was a loss but every team has injuries but part of aiming at a GF is to be able to cover them. Overall the players you've mentioned aren't our classy ball users. Also, missing one or two games isn't a considerable amount.

Your original statement that we have lacked skill is a cop out considering the quality of players that have played the majority of the games ie TJ, Green, Jones, Bruce, White, Davey, Brown, McDonald etc. How could these players suddenly lose their skill because Neitz and co miss games?

[timD 994]

Jarka, would you agree that Jones, wheels, mcclean and bartrum are all ball winners in contests and therefore allow the "skilled' players greater chance at time and space to use teh pill? If so, then the absense of said players means that those people not best at winning their won ball are under great pressure when they get it, IF they get it.

WE don't have many other pure 'contest-winners'. Davey, maybe. Bruce, as long as its not a brute strength contest. Bell, as long as he's running straight. Sylvia if he is no focused only on tackling - and even then he frequently falls over.

[Jarka 767]

Jarka, would you agree that Jones, wheels, mcclean and bartrum are all ball winners in contests and therefore allow the "skilled' players greater chance at time and space to use teh pill? If so, then the absense of said players means that those people not best at winning their won ball are under great pressure when they get it, IF they get it.

WE don't have many other pure 'contest-winners'. Davey, maybe. Bruce, as long as its not a brute strength contest. Bell, as long as he's running straight. Sylvia if he is no focused only on tackling - and even then he frequently falls over.

Bartram is a run with player, not a ball winner, also played alot of his time in defence last year.

Whelan is a defender.

Jones has missed only two games.

McLean is a massive loss because we don't have any players capable of doing what he does.

This is not a new issue with us tim. All through our time with Daniher as coach our reputation has been that our midfielders go missing under pressure, that's whythe eagles hit us so hard so early in the game, they realise if you get on top of us we fail.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Where have I said that the injuries we've had have not impacted us this year? Don't misquote me to serve your own argument.

How many games did Green miss? 2 Jones 1. Whelan 3, Bartram would have been considered a first round pick except for his poor skills, so him being injured didn't impact us with regards to skill. Moloney is more of an impact player, not a skilled one, ditto for Neitz. Yes McLean was a loss but every team has injuries but part of aiming at a GF is to be able to cover them. Overall the players you've mentioned aren't our classy ball users. Also, missing one or two games isn't a considerable amount.

Your original statement that we have lacked skill is a cop out considering the quality of players that have played the majority of the games ie TJ, Green, Jones, Bruce, White, Davey, Brown, McDonald etc. How could these players suddenly lose their skill because Neitz and co miss games?

You get lost in the small stuff and completely miss the big picture.

In our best side the players I have mention would be selected. As they are not there we selected less skilled players to replace them.

Here my comment:

"Its extremely difficult fielding an injury depleted under skilled team and its taking its toll on everyone at the Club."

You asked why are they underskilled?

I answered about the injuries where critical players to our success have been absent for sustained periods and supllemented by many others.

The performance of the players that have played is another factor in addition to the injuries. execution of the skills by the remaining players has been a concern and I have not doubt that an influence had been the absence of the injured players.

Keep trying.

Nicely put timD!

[timD 994]

I don't think I've expressed well what I meant. I said that I think those players are ball winners in contests. Are you saying that whelan doesn't win the ball when he contests for it- that Bartram doesn't? Sure both are defenders or run-with, but their abilty to compete and win 1vs1 is a huge asset that too may of the other mids don't have. I agree that our midfield is unable to hold its own under strong pressure consistently. Wouldn't that be due our contest winning players being out or few in number? So many of our midfielders (bruce, green, TJ, macca, godders) are o.k. with either tagging or ball use. Not so great with ball winning. So when those that can are out, we look poor - hell we can be terrible!

Given Mcclean, moloney, bartram and wheels injuries and jones' age, I reckon that we can see why our 'mids' are regularly crunched.

[Jarka 767]

You get lost in the small stuff and completely miss the big picture.

In our best side the players I have mention would be selected. As they are not there we selected less skilled players to replace them.

Here my comment:

"Its extremely difficult fielding an injury depleted under skilled team and its taking its toll on everyone at the Club."

You asked why are they underskilled?

I answered about the injuries where critical players to our success have been absent for sustained periods and supllemented by many others.

The performance of the players that have played is another factor in addition to the injuries. execution of the skills by the remaining players has been a concern and I have not doubt that an influence had been the absence of the injured players.

Keep trying.

Nicely put timD!

Keep trying? You've misquoted me and have managed to dodge questions.

[Jarka 767]

I don't think I've expressed well what I meant. I said that I think those players are ball winners in contests. Are you saying that whelan doesn't win the ball when he contests for it- that Bartram doesn't? Sure both are defenders or run-with, but their abilty to compete and win 1vs1 is a huge asset that too may of the other mids don't have. I agree that our midfield is unable to hold its own under strong pressure consistently. Wouldn't that be due our contest winning players being out or few in number? So many of our midfielders (bruce, green, TJ, macca, godders) are o.k. with either tagging or ball use. Not so great with ball winning. So when those that can are out, we look poor - hell we can be terrible!

Given Mcclean, moloney, bartram and wheels injuries and jones' age, I reckon that we can see why our 'mids' are regularly crunched.

Whelan and Bartram are not contest winning players, don't fall for that trap, they are negating defenders. Moloney and Jones hasn't missed that much footy to explain our 0-8 start to the season. On this topic only McLean has been a significant loss to our midfield, and if what you and RR are saying is true, if our midfield can't cope without McLean in the side then we have far worse problems than any of us realise. It means that we have a whole generation of players that aren't up to it.

[timD 994]

Jarka, I'll disagree about the 'contest winning' vs 'negating'. Maybe these two things are really just a matter of degrees from each other anyway. I'd argue that macca and godders are more negating; wheels and bartram appeared to me far more able to beat their opponents and hurt the oposition, rather than just break even though negation (though it is a bit of a big call re barts).

However, I think our mids have been routinely exposed over the past 4 years (03-07). When the big man Hannabal was posting around, he consistently argued (from memory) that our greatest strength was our 'outside' mids. When they were on song, we tore teams apart. When they were pressured and not winning their own footy, we looked terrible. The rest of our team was break-even (backs) or dependent on supply (forwards). Until the hard mids issue was addressed, we were not goingto improve. Sylvia, mcclean, bell, moloney, bate, jones and maybe pettard have all been selected to fill that hole I think. Bartram was a speculative pic.

So, sylvia hasn't worked as a midfielder to date, niether has bell. Moloney is chronically injured. Jones is a baby, McClean is regualrly injured and perhaps injury prone. You're right to see disaster in our midfield because it is there IMO.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You've misquoted me and have managed to dodge questions.

Your quote:

"Why are they underskilled? "

I answered...the team was underskilled because of the absence of critical players over the past eight weeks.

It does not get simpler than that. So I thought.

What answer are you hunting for?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

........

However, I think our mids have been routinely exposed over the past 4 years (03-07). When the big man Hannabal was posting around, he consistently argued (from memory) that our greatest strength was our 'outside' mids. When they were on song, we tore teams apart. When they were pressured and not winning their own footy, we looked terrible. The rest of our team was break-even (backs) or dependent on supply (forwards). Until the hard mids issue was addressed, we were not goingto improve. Sylvia, mcclean, bell, moloney, bate, jones and maybe pettard have all been selected to fill that hole I think. Bartram was a speculative pic.

So, sylvia hasn't worked as a midfielder to date, niether has bell. Moloney is chronically injured. Jones is a baby, McClean is regualrly injured and perhaps injury prone. You're right to see disaster in our midfield because it is there IMO.

Good post tim D. That's exactly MFC's problem in the midfield.

[Gouga 528]

Your quote:

"Why are they underskilled? "

I answered...the team was underskilled because of the absence of critical players over the past eight weeks.

It does not get simpler than that. So I thought.

What answer are you hunting for?

I think Jarka is asking why individual players are unskilled?

Your point about players missing is irrelevant.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I think Jarka is asking why individual players are unskilled?

Your point about players missing is irrelevant.

No. it isnt at all.

I made a statement about the team being injury depleted and underskilled.

He asked why are they are underskill. He is implying individual players to suit his own line of argument.

I was merely defending and substantiating my statement about the team and the injury impact.

I made no statement about individual players skill but recognised that the performance of many players has been disappointing and many need to consider the future.

Its obviously harder for some than I thought.

[Jarka 767]

I think Jarka is asking why individual players are unskilled?

Your point about players missing is irrelevant.

Gouga, you are 100% correct about RR, a leopard will never change its spots.

Tim, I understand what you're saying and I agree 100%.