How inexperienced are we!

[McQueen 17,864]

I think you overestimate the likelihood that you know what Neeld is telling the players. So far, I admit that he's not made a great impression with on-field results, but if there's something that could and should be praised, it's his ability to deliver a consistent message. He's clearly thought about what the message for each audience should be, and delivers that message consistently every time he's asked. The press get the same message about experience, and development. The supporters get the same message every time he speaks to us - stick with us, the future is bright. I'm sure the players get the same consistent messages too, but not the messages we get. It's clear he values consistently hard work, and systems to deliver it. It's clear to me from the words that come out of the mouths of the players during interviews, that they've been getting the same messages from Neeld, constantly. Work hard, play for your team mates, worry about internal measures not external chatter. Every single player interview they use the word "internal". They're setting up an emotional fortress, "us against them". I'm involved in high performance team-building professionally, I think they're on the right path to building a strong, winning, work ethic. Call it culture, if you like.

I'm rambling, but my point is this - you don't know what Neeld's telling the players. He doesn't say to you, what he says to them. There's probably only 50-60 people in the inner circle of the football department (including players), and if you're not one of them, you don't know what the internal messages are. I'm still not sure whether Neeld is a good matchday coach, but then I'm not sure Mark Thompson (or any coach, for that matter), really has much of an influence on the field. 99% of their influence happens in building the team in the years preceding success.

Given the way you could hear the players yelling - constantly - "Neeldy! Neeldy! Come on mate! Neeldy!" prior to the song on the weekend, I'm convinced he's got the backing of the playing group and they're "buying" his message. They were genuinely excited for him and wanted him to be a part of the song (I believe he was, once behind closed doors. His external message is different to the internal one, remember?). Even if we lose 18 games this year, I'd like to see Neeld remain in place for another 3-4 years. Once the fortress is built, the results make themselves. Bomber Thompson was that close to getting fired right before his team began the biggest football dynasty since the Hawks of the 80s.

I agree with all you've said. Neeld has done that line to death though and it's irritating me.

[autocol 448]

I agree with all you've said. Neeld has done that line to death though and it's irritating me.

Haha! And because of his strategy to build a successful team (consistent messages, consistent training, consistent performance), he will continue to do that, whether it irritates you or not!

If it ends up working, I imagine you'll find it less irritating then...

Edited April 23, 2013 by autocol

[autocol 448]

Every season, 22 players play 22 games (for simplicity's sake, anyway).

So that's 484 games experience added 'naturally' each year.

Whilst I agree generally with your wider point, that's not strictly true. Each year, on average, you'll gain 484 games of experience, and 484 games of experience will retire. The "natural" amount of experience to add each year is zero - and in the long term that's true for all clubs (as long as the list stays the same size). In the recent short term, however, you're exactly right. The Dees have lost vastly more experience than they've gained.

[dee-luded 2,959]

As a player, it would [censored] me off no end to be told week-in, week-out, that due to the sides lack of game experience we won't be very good for some time yet. I would want to be told that we're good enough to win right now.

I would like Neeld to change his message to the players and the general public about this belief of his. It's growing tiresome.

I'm sure that Neeld would Not Be making those sort of excuses to the players.

But when trying to keep the supporters informed, an explanation is sometimes required.

Neeld is trying to get the players hardened up, so why would he give out excuses,,, with the development... he wouldn't!

[dee-luded 2,959]

The problem is that with a decade of abysmal drafting, we're continually in a cycle of chopping out the middle of our list, putting us in this "forever young" cycle. It's why Neeld targeted experienced players; it's the only way to fast track improvement.

there ya go, but Nasher, you forgot to add the decade of dismal development, as well. they weren't all useless picks, but the culture was.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Every season, 22 players play 22 games (for simplicity's sake, anyway).

So that's 484 games experience added 'naturally' each year.

Remarkably, way back since 2007, the Demons have continuously reduced the total games experience on the list, almost every year.

I've thrown together what I've been able to quickly find, with games played where possible. I set aside less-than-50 gamers for simplicity's sake.

From my figuring, the only time we increased our total experience on field in the last six years was going from start of 2011 to start of 2012

2007: Brown, Ward, Bizzell, Godfrey, Ferguson

2008: Neitz (306), Yze (271), White (268), Holland (191)

2009: Robertson (228), Whelan (150), Wheatley(135) and picked up Joel MacDonald (80)

2010: Bell (66) McDonald (251) Miller (133) Johnson (67) Bruce (224)

2011: Warnock (55) note: other delistings were under 50 games. Added Mitch Clark (85)

2012:

Out: Moloney (145), Rivers (150), Martin (52), Bennell (57), Petterd (54), Bate (102), Green (254), Morton (72), Bartram (102)

In: Dawes (71), Byrnes (110), Rodan (175)

Wow, it was a little bit of a shock to see that Morton had more games experience than Dawes.

And a quick bit of maths will tell anyone that our trades/free agency tangles at the end of 2012 actually reduced our total experience, far from 'stacking the list with older players'.

In fact...

In: 356 games

out: 988 games

Net: -632 games

So Melbourne's list is actually a LOT less experienced starting 2012 than it was starting 2011. By a whole 'season' worth of games and then some.

Next remarkable thought - Dunn, Macdonald and Davey are 3 of our 9 players with more than 100 games of experience, and all look shaky to play on in 2014. So unless there is another successful recruiting effort (we all crave a class midfielder, of course) then the club will barely be more experienced in 2014 as it is this year.

So there y' go. Melbourne is less experienced in 2013 than in 2012.

Let's be clear I'm not in 'excuse-making mode' here. I'm just plinking a misconception about the Demon's list.

the key is to get your talented players above the 50 game mark. after this the output is usually much better with size & experience usually taking shape.

If we can hold as many 100 plus talented players & get as many above 50, we'll be looking a lot better. add imports like Clark, Dawes,& other quality to come & things will soon turn.

this would be why they've been saying 2014 will show us much improvement.

the likes of these boys >

Sam Blease 22Yrs 23games

Tom McDonald 20 25

Luke Tapscott 21 32

Rohan Bail 24 38

Jeremey Howe 22 39

the quicker we can get them up above that 50 game mark the better.

(re Blease, IMO he'll get the call up from the Carlton game, & onward).