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.Great post. The club has made significant changes off field and has recruited well. The players are running out of excuses. Paul Roos won't be around forever, the senior players need to set the tone not a first year player.

I agree, everyone's talking up the Saints as front runner but I was thinking of Hawthorn myself. We can match the dollars but not the chance of immediate success.

Disappointed Viney was included. I hope Frawleys inclusion wasn't linked to him coming out of contract.

Just making the point that people choose which racism bandwagon they want to jump on to.I'm with Baghdad Bob, let's get back to the footy.

I am racist, and I'm also guilty of passing on my way of life to my daughter. It was less than six weeks ago I decided to decorate the house before my daughter arrived for Christmas. I even went as far as hanging Xmas lights in the lounge room window in full view of the street and anyone who should pass. What the bloody hell I thinking. ....oh sorry that's differant.

No idea whether ASADA had requested an interview but always thought he would be last on their list so they had plenty of ammunition. I know these things take time but it's now bordering on ridiculous. The interview with players would have shed little light on anything. They would have reeled out the company line of "our medical team said it was alright", a medical team that consisted of Dr Reid who had nothing to do with the program, had serious concerns about the program, wrote emails to various key staff at the EFC about the program then decided to lock himself in a cupboard while it all went on. Drug testing is expensive so only certain things are targeted in tests, with the list of things thrown up as potential things taken, could be a safe bet some of them wouldn't have been tested for, plus most drugs are out of your system in days, hence no positive tests. Time to cut the crap and break Danks plums to get the facts. Good on the Cronulla players for seeking the truth, however any player stupid enough to take part in systematic injecting program deserves to be rubbed out of the game. At Essendon when one player stood up and said no wouldn't you start to think...why, I don't remember getting injected as a junior, then I need to sign a contract to keep my trap shut about it. What ever the result this whole saga needs to be put to bed.

Ability to play on tall and small forwards, provides some run out if defence with reasonable disposal. As for being beaten by Betts, well I can't think of a player that has never been beaten at some stage of their career....maybe Hird. Trading him is a stupid idea he's only 24/25. As for drafting another key defender, isn't that what all clubs do, with players for all positions. Problem is there is now 18 clubs so until this massive untapped talent pool of Greater Western Sydney kicks in were stuck with him, something I'm very happy about. Was it Col and Chip that held Buddy and Roughy to 2 goals between them a couple of years back?

Dont mention Tassie.....

Interesting how they have viewed Richmond, I'm tipping them to slide. They have an easy draw but ultimately will get found out.

You make some really good points, and I understand all arguments for and against. I can't add much more than what I have written in my previous post.

The point you make with regards to the talent pool is a good one, something I hadn't considered. League is a good came for tv because of the games structures, but it's all they seem to be able to get their heads around. I've often asked league fans why doesn't someone kick on the 3rd or 4th and try and catch the opposition off guard. They look at me like I'm stupid. Until the backs start to throw the ball around its so bloody predictable. They struggle to sell out finals, their passion isn't anything like ours. Manly Sea Eagles were required to play some of their home games away from Brookvale(their home ground/boutique stadium)and play at the SFS when playing some of the bigger league clubs so that more supporters from the opposition could attend. The die hard Manly supporters refused to travel the measley distance in protest. It's like Geelong supporters refusing to watch games at Etihad or the G. I'm not willing GWS to fail, but I think they will struggle for years to come. I don't think some people up here fully understand the tactics or lack there off in their own game let alone try and follow ours. But they are there now, and there to stay. Any talk of further expansion or multi tier leauges, should remain just that. As has been mentioned before, the squeeze of ten clubs in Victoria might force one into the Apple Isle.

I honestly hope you are right but from my experience most people from Sydney tend to be bandwagon jumpers. GWS needs to have sustained success.

From what I understand, people think for us to remain the no. 1 sport in Australia we have to have two teams in Sydney because of the untapped market/potential growth/number of people living there already and only one team currently based there/tv market. On that same logic rugby league should start a second team in Melbourne in 2015. We were before, and still would be without GWS being established the no. 1 sporting code in Australia. We have a monopoly on Vic, WA, SA, Tas, possibly NT, only playing second fiddle to QLD(where we have two teams to leagues three, I think Titans are propped up by News LTD) and obviously NSW. I'm from Melbourne but have lived in Sydney for the last four years. It's a known fact that rugby struggles to get crowds at games. Most clubs have these boutique stadiums which they can't bloody fill. As much as we love our game it doesn't mean everyone else is going to. If Swans had a waiting list for memberships and were selling out every home game fair enough. I do understand the concept of this is for the next generation of people from Western Sydney, but ultimately I think it will fail. I hope I'm wrong. As for the tv rights argument, numerous weekends had four AFL games live, with a minimum of three thanks to 7mate. So there's still plenty of advertising available.

What part of "Izzy was nothing but a smart marketing ploy" don't people understand. The fat controller said himself during a press conference had he and Karmichael Hunt held out for money he would have had no problem paying it.

I thought the Titans were in massive financial strife too.

Well the team is in place now. It will be interesting to see over the next few years how many games the Giants win, can they land a superstar not someone cashing in at 27(they got well and truly bent over by Buddy as they were so confident in getting him they stopped chasing anyone else)crowd numbers, auskick numbers, junior local footy numbers, the completion of seating at the ground. If the numbers fail to steadily increase they may have to rethink it. I remember at the time when GWS were awarded the 18th license thinking that the AFL will wait for North or the Bulldogs to be on deaths door only to relocate them down south. As for players not wanting to live there, the same was said about Adelaide. Football careers last between 2 and 10 years unless your surname is Fletcher or Harvey. The next rule change should be if your club trades you, thats it, you can move where ever you want when your career is over. Arrogance is creeping into the game, look at the recent Dusty Martin sideshow.

The Izzy Folau experiment went exactly as planned. No one seriously expected him to hang around for long. He was purely a marketing tool, surely you knew that. As for Scully, GWS have to pay overs to attract players. Scully spent two years with us and was predicted by many to be the next big thing. Let's be honest, when he left we thought that too. Two years on we are all wiser.

i understand what your saying but if someone in Sydney doesn't want to watch AFL, whether it's live on tv, live at a stadium or being played in their backyard they won't watch it. In Sydney every Swans and GWS game is on free to air. A lot of GWS games are on 7mate. Surely a company paying for their ad to be aired in a specified time slot would have access to the number of viewers expected, plus the possibility of paying less then you would if their ad was airing on channel 7. Then if the extra money made has to be automatically pumped back into the club to prop it up the AFL will forever be chasing their tale.If Tasmania were the 18th club with a 25 thousand seat stadium they would less of a burden to the AFL than GWS ever will.

Melbourne has just one NRL side because there is just enough interest to support it. The AFL should have done the same in Sydney. The Swans do well to draw the crowds they do but I would estimate that 30% of those people have little knowledge about the game, the players and see it more as day/night of socialising then actually watching the footy. The Tasmanian government was prepared to come on board as their major sponsor, plus giving them the luxury of their own boutique stadium they couldn't do any worse than GWS. The AFL rest with the knowledge even if they shaft Tassie it will always be an AFL state.

The rule needs to be changed, just hope the umps don't stuff it up.

I take your point mate.

as good a contested mark Cloke is we all know his sets shot are disgraceful. As far as what the paper says I don't GAF, but a couple of star players would be nice going into a final series.

Sorry, forgot Mitch.

I live in Sydney so don't get the HUN, out of interest who was GWS?? ... Shaw?In the "Improvers and Sliders" thread I was close to writing for Improvers, would love one of ours to become elite. As good as Jones is and no disrespect to him I can't see him in the same class as a Pendles. I think it will come in the form of Hogan, Viney, Tyson or Salem/Toumpas.

I think McDonald will be a key player for us over the next few years.