Toast

You have to wonder what the point of even having this game is... aren't practice matches supposed to be so your team can some MATCH PRACTICE in? I would say 15-16 or even more of our best 22 are not out going to be out there, what the hell are they doing sidelining so many players? It has been a long time since I've seen such a depleted squad, now I'm glad its not on TV because we will surely get absolutely pumped

there is obviously an obvious difference when discussing almost an entire side not fielding vs the playing history of one player OBVIOUSLY by your rationale everybody not playing today has the opportunity to trot out the 'interrupted preseason' excuse later in the season. You're talking about 2 completely different things OBVIOUSLY

Dear Captain Obvious,

If you are a player who has not enjoyed the benefit of a full pre-season would it not be difficult to cement a role/spot/position in a team who has?

Would it also be plausible that one's match fitness might also be hindered?

You are the one suggesting that players like Tapscott are using their interrupted pre-seasons as an excuse for not performing well.

Yours Sincerely,

Someone who actually has a concept of the importance of a full pre-season for individual players

You have to wonder what the point of even having this game is... aren't practice matches supposed to be so your team can some MATCH PRACTICE in? I would say 15-16 or even more of our best 22 are not out going to be out there, what the hell are they doing sidelining so many players? It has been a long time since I've seen such a depleted squad, now I'm glad its not on TV because we will surely get absolutely pumped

In one thread you scoff at the suggestion that Luke Tapscott's failure to thrive is due to a lack of a full pre-season, and now your trumpeting the importance of pre-season match practice!

Make up your mind!

First thing is first, we will not make finals.

I can tell you the coaching team were extremely pleased with aspects of our team defence which has barely been spoken about on here. Watch the North game again and have a look how many times they had to slow the play down, kick sideways and take risks because we defended as a team. North had so many more possessions because they had to mess around with the ball at the back, and we pushed forward slowly and created pressure. Forget the kicking, forget breaking the lines, this is the base of our game and Neeld has improved the team....the rest will come.

Other positives:

Jack Watts has developed into a player who can defend well, counter attack well and find the ball extremely well. Another 2 years and he can become similar to Goddard, maybe not as good but close.

We actually beat North if you don't count the extra 3 points they got for the super goal. For christ sakes!!! WE BEAT NORTH AT ETIHAD...there is a massive improvement.

I like it!

Super impressive.

I loved the way he worked up the ground also, he was prepared to spread far and wide for an opportunity. Seemed poised, confident and a part of a team.

yes, yes, yes.

I really got a feeling with so many new players on the ground and from established players like Jones and Watts that there was a feeling of a corner being turned. I'll qualify that by suggesting that it might not lead to a swing in our win to loss ratio. But it feels like there has been enough of a turnover for us to get over the horror of seasons past.

I personally am getting very sick of this tune - it's just an excuse for anyone who is relatively young and/or has had even minor injury problems. It was an excuse trotted out for Colin Sylvia his whole career so far, and countless others. This will be Tapscott's 4th year after being taken at #18. He is 3 months younger than Jack Watts and a year older than Tom McDonald. He has 19 games under his belt. He has only been held back through injury to a minor degree, if you are declared match fit and available then that is that. Our side is a basket case full of other kids - there is no excuse for him not to be making some sort of stamp this season, whatever way you cut it. I have nothing against him, but the facts of the matter are we are three years in and seeing nothing.

I don't think there is a single professional involved in footy at a national, state, or even country level who would agree with you. The importance of player preparation during the pre-season is universally acknowledged as a cornerstone of modern footy. Given the pace and hardness of the game it is virtually impossible for players to build up a fitness base during the season proper due to significant amount of muscle recovery that occurs post match. It is absurd to suggest that Tapscott has had a clear shot at showing us his worth or that he is out of ‘’excuses’’, such an assertion highlights your lack of knowledge about the player himself and the modern game. Some of the hip and shoulders he dished out last year were some of the highlights of our pathetic season. I am positive that his penetrating kick,love of the contest and potential versatility are a lot more important to our coaches than how much older or younger he is compared to Jack Watts.

It's interesting (read worrying) that the Five things I want are all fundamentals of footy:

- Leadership: Not just from our co-captains but from our established players and experienced recruits. There has been a serious leadership vacuum at our club since JMac's awkward sacking.

- Hunger: A simple hunger for the ball and therefore the contest. Sadly lacking during the Bailey era and yet to appear on the field under Neeld.

- Skills: Our lack of skills is what separates us from the top half of the ladder. The question is: have we drafted unskilled players and, if so, can we work on the skills they have?

- Spread: It's the buzz word, but it's the buzz word for a reason. It seems we recruited players with this in mind which is what I'll be looking for tonight.

-Delivery into the forward 50: Surely with targets there the duty falls upon our mid-fielders to delivery effectively into our forward half.

I reckon the longer he stayed with us the worse his kicking became and I often wonder if someone did and Ian Baker-Finch on him and tried to change his style with much the same effect.

I still believe, and I know I'm in the minority, that there was a place for him at Melbourne.

I'm with you Robbie. Cale's failure to thrive at Melbourne says a lot about our inability to develop players. People can blame our recruiting all they want, but at the time Cale was universally seen as the obvious pick at 4. I would suggest that the vast majority of recruiters would have thought him a good choice. Yes he had his shortfalls but they were exposed further because of the lack of support and importantly leaders he had around him. Time will tell.

Toast I agree with all you say except the last line.

If that was the case they would have played better last year.

35000+ members , a large number went week in week out and they dished up tripe.

You have ignored IMO one vital ingredient Skill

The majority of the list last year did not have the required level to get us above third last.

No amount belief would change that

I think all of these ideas are in some way connected. I think our belief will inspire confidence which in turn will impact upon our skills. It's a long shot, but I'm running with it. I remember after Cale Morton's first game a few of us on Demonland took particular notice of a one-step kick across his body which hit his teammate lace out fifty metres away. This is back when Cale was riding on the confidence he had as a highly-rated junior. He lost his belief and seem never know where to be and what to do afterwards.

The club has a responsibility to give it's supporters/Members value for money. To be as poor as we have for as long as we have isn't value, it ius border line torture. I buy a membership each year and will as long as I can afford to do so, but I can certainly understand why supports that are reluctant to re-new or buy a new membership, 2012 was the first year that I left games early, sometime 3 qtr time sometimes half way through the last, prior to this never always the final siren. Last year was the first year that I was completely frustrated with my Trident Membership, I found the management of the reserved seat area was poor and I let the club know about this on a number of occasions, appreciate this is a MCC function but we by our membership from our club. Due to this poor management of this area, 2012 saw me sit somewhere else to avoid getting into arguements with opposition supporters that should have been there. 2012 was the most unpleasent year I ahve had as a member.

I have no problems with the supporting the club arguement, but at some stage the club has to give us something to support and be proud off.

Until this happens our membership numbers will fall year on year and the 40K target in 2-3 years could become a 30K target

Dr I hear you. The club has been so bad for so long it is difficult to maintain the enthusiasm at times. But, probably just like you, I've been a Dees supporter all of my life and thus like to take a long term view. By purchasing a yearly membership I am not simply wanting to ''buy-in'' to or pledge my support for that particular year, it is more of an acknowledgement of my ongoing support for the club as an entity. It's thanks for the pleasure and an a tip of the hat to the pain the club has provided me. It makes me feel like I'm a part of something, and given our poor numbers, something rare. I want to be that person in the crowd on Grandfinal day knowing that my long term support of the club contributed to getting us that next premiership cup.

Your displeasure with your seating arrangements is understandable but I have to say at the same time (with respect) it comes across as a little fickle. The money you pay as a Trident member (respect!), does indeed entitle you to a good sea,t but its not the way I'd chose to look at things. I'd rather think of it in the above (perhaps romantic) terms and think of the message it is sending to the players as they prepare for another season. I wonder how you'd go explaining to one of the players that your support for the club as a member hinges upon the seats you are allocated by the club. I imagine after spending the time and effort they do devoted to the club and their careers, such a comment would be difficult to comprehend.

I agree entirely that we are due some on-field success, but I can't help but think that the self belief within our players begins with us and the belief we show in them.

If, over the past months, you've been reading this forum and have felt as helpless as I have about the issues our club has been subjected to, then I'd like to suggest that the one thing you can do is be a member. I just renewed my family membership and even though I know the club could have done with my money earlier, I wanted to make a post - investigation statement, that no matter what, I stand by my club, our club. Our club needs our active support and whether you like it or not the biggest indicator of club support is membership numbers.

I feel proud to be born into supporting the club that invented the rules of this great game and I am equally as proud to call myself a member.

I am sick to death of the oft-quoted statistic of our supporter to member ratio. It is a cop out we rely upon as some sort of consolation for our low member numbers. We, as vocal supporters of the club, must contribute to a culture which says you're either with us or against us.

If you're not a member you're just a barracker and surely there's nothing worse than that...

what are your views on the "Tanking" issue Toast?

Thanks for asking WYL and maybe just what I need...

We tanked. Big time. The club officials that is, not the players, never the players.

I think, and it has been suggested to me by someone who has had access to the AFL, that the whole investigation proceeded without Vlad's approval. It was Adrian Anderson acting off his own bat. This is the simple reason why we have been singled out. The AFL know they are in a no-win situation. We can take this whole scenario to court and comprehensively not only win but reveal the absurdity of the whole investigation in the process.

I, like others, believe the 'investigation' has in fact, been for the majority, a negotiated stand-off, with both parties looking for a way out of a situation that should not have eventuated while saving as much 'face' and money in the process.

I agree that wasn't particularly insightful but I simply found your post very boring.

I have been on the end of moderation I didn't agree with being banned by RR for suggesting CS may have turned Kero down for a date. I thought it was harmless and a ban without warning was way over the top and so I took it up with the site owner who was more than reasonable and reinstated me. They won't always get it right but for the most part I think they do a great job. There are of course other forums which are less moderated with a greater divergence of views that you might find meet your needs better.

As for being a life member, as an interstate follower I really appreciate the training reports etc. we get over the summer to see how things are progressing so I was more that happy to pay the small on off fee to contribute to the running of the site which in turn made me a life member rather than simply being complicit in any views expressed here. I am sure you would be listened to if you were able to summons up a little more substance to your posts.

Toast,

I wouldn't even think of censoring you for the above comments, boorish as they may be. This is a forum and if you want to make a monkey out of yourself, you're free to do so.

But if you try using the same coarse language as those who we have had to give a holiday to recently, you'll find that unlike the AFL we're pretty consistent in dealing with those who break our rules.

Now please get on with the matters at hand.

Now now Jack don't present yourself as the diplomat now mate. You personally locked then deleted a thread on this very topic I started a few months ago!

You also ignored information provided to you about a poster who was deleted for 6 months for calling someone a pissant. I imagine you find my post 'boorish' because you are sick of me and others finding flaws in the loosely applied protocols that apply to the mods and their mates and the rest of us.

I've said my bit and feel the better for doing so. Isn't that what this forum is all about?

Bring on Round 1.

Zzzzz

As insightful and articulate a response as one normally receives from a 'Life' member. Good for you stinga, just keep having the same conversations with all your virtual mates on here and tell yourself that life is good.

Just wait for my above post criticising the Demonland status-quo to be removed and deemed "off-topic". I'm just waiting for Rhino to slap another warning on me and to tell me that Whispering Vlad is 'very unhappy with me" for publicly questioning how this place operates. The fact is that criticism of Demonland is all deemed Off Topic.

The other thread is now Whispering Jacks personal column which is fairly disappointing.

...

I have had some blues with Curry and Beer ,Stuie ,Ben Hur and others but I think we have all been big enough to move on.

The warnings, the selective bans, the CoC referrals ,the reminders of libel laws etc are a bit much when we all write under aliases and can be considered a special interest(nearly special needs) group.

Mods and stalwarts , I suggest we actually begin to enjoy our football a bit more and lighten up .

...

The double standards on here are glaring and damning upon those who maintain them.

Whispering Vlad is completely unwilling to accept that they even exist, kind of like his name sake and 'Tanking'. Maybe in a couple of years he'll come 'round and announce an investigation into the personal vendettas some mods have over posters? Or he'll take interest in the protection rackets that look after others who sprout violence and racism only to be banned for a mere month!

Oh I know the chorus will come: "The mods do such an amazing job, with little or no acknowledgement whatsoever'. This may, in part, be true. But there is a reason that this entire forum runs off the back of 30 to 40 obsessive posters and new comers with questions and opinions outside the norm are bullied into submission or banned for long periods of time for insignificant indiscretions. That is because this place is being run like Melbourne was in 2009 and Essendon was in 2012, its a boys club, all else need not apply.

Ball rarely in Tiges centre half, so nev compared to Aaron's game a little quiet. Davey looking great, no doubt spurred on by the all-stars jumper, will the Dees jumper have the same effect?

What about Davey's hit on the chest while kicking off balance! Dee-licios!

Hell yes. Without getting stupid, the signs are good!

Another clearence / free kick to flash. Spell in the cente good for the confidence. Davey just links with Betts and stiffy for a goal after a genuine don't argue.

Nev Jett tagging Martin.

Tigers can't keep up . All stars running. 9th looking probable for the Tiges.

Storm clouds brewing.

Is this televised if so I'll stop staring at my phone.

Facet? On the iPhone. Davey. Whilst we're at it he just dropped a sidder on the wing. Not a good look.

Nev Jett playing up back. Dom seemingly not playing, copped plenty of local media and fanfare being an Alice boy though.

Facet playing centre, first clearence of the game.

Aaron Davey collects brilliantly from. Ryder tap. Passes as only he can for a jones goal.