Lucifers Hero

Sorry to quote myself but that post prompted me to look more closely at options. The club added two new membership packages! Who knew? These new packages are: Demon Seats Plus Open Air https://membership.melbournefc.com.au/packages/view/499/Demon-Seats-Plus-Open-Air Cost (Adult Home Games): $429 Demon Seats Plus Undercover https://membership.melbournefc.com.au/packages/view/85/Demon-Seats-Plus-Undercover Cost (Adult Home Games): $479 After some labourious manual comparisons I found other combos that include the GF guarantee! Compare above to these: Redlegs: Cost (Adult Home Games): $479 (incl Reserved seat and it has more benefits) General Admission: Cost (Adult Home Games): $221 plus GF Guarantee option $229 ie $450! (This will go up to $520 after round 1). Note: there is no Reserved seat attached to this membership combo!! So anyone wanting a GF guarantee should buy one of the packages instead because they get a Reserved seat (really important for potential high attendance games like Anzac Eve and QB when premiums might be charged/reservation fee could be charged). The downside appears to be that members can no longer buy a Membership with Reserved seat without the Grand Final Guarantee option kicking in. (It may be there but I haven't been able to find it on the website). I wonder what people who had the Gen Admiss plus Reserved seat option in 2017 saw on their renewal notice? This could really hurt families who like to have a reserved seat so they sit in 'their seat' within a Demon crowd. It is the most traditional of Club membership and some people would have had the same reserved seats for years. Maybe theseare the 'diehards' that have not renewed because they want a Reserved Seat but not a GF guarantee. I would be interested to know if anyone can find a General Admission plus Reserved Seat option on our website. But who knew about the new packages/chages? How on earth is anyone supposed to easily compare? I'm not having a go at the club here - I genuinely believe there is an issue with the club communicating price and feature changes in a way that is easy for members to work out where they stand and what their options are.

Sorry hardtack but that is what the mfc website says. For mine, on my (non-automatic) renewal they added a $99 AFLW membership on the basis of my Demon AFLW Foundation Member last year which I thought was a once off 'donation'. I would have preferred the club sent an email to say it would be added to my Redlegs membership renewal or allowed me to opt out, on the on-line renewal process. From what I could see the on-line renewal screen did not allow changes to existing memberships. There is a lesson for the club from your and my experiences: Membership renewal notices should tell members what price or feature changes have occurred. It isn't hard - a standard email to tell all members of the new charges/features, is all it takes. Currently, it is quite difficult to compare membership options and features on the club website. In fact it would help it there was a 'compare' feature on the website. Things for the membership team to think about for next year. It would save some member angst and earn some goodwill if the club communicated changes better and made it easier for people to evaluate their options.

Re the Grand Final Guarantee -- if you want it buy your membership with it included before round 1 because then it goes from $229 to $299 per membership. https://membership.melbournefc.com.au/packages/view/958/Grand-Final-Guarantee There is only a limited number and once you have it you have 1st choice to keep it the following year. As Diamond Jim says, it is now serious money especially when there is more than one family member.

Just putting the current status out there (as we usually do at this time of year on Demonland) and to keep d'landers informed of club related stuff. I agree most of the 6,000 diehards will probably renew. There have been 7,000 additional members join since Roos’ appointment was announced. They will be less resilient than the diehards and us on Demonland. The club really needs them all to renew and renew their usually membership and not downgrade it to a lower level or to a 3 game membership. The fixture has not helped this cause. Not many enticing Home MCG games. As always it is up to the coach and players to deliver - no 'mental weakness' against the lesser clubs, especially in the first part of the year. No more three quarter efforts. I truly hope we beat our prior record of 42,000+ but the current trend doesn't look promising.

No promises from the club for next year ding. In fact, the opposite! In the PJ interview on SEN last week Garry Lyon asked him if making finals was 'not negotiable' next year. Jackson said something like '...nothing is not negotiable...'. So I doubt anyone from the club will use the F word next year. Lots of tippy toeing will happen around the F word.

That would certainly influence some people. A poster reported a while back that the cost to add the Grand Final Guarantee went from $80 in 2016 to $229. That GFG increase would have been quite a shock to people who are used to buying it for $80. Personally, I think that is a rip off by the club as my Redlegs membership which has the GFG built in went up by only a small amount in total. For members who were already disillusioned/disappointed by the clubs performance/decisions that GFG increase (and other price increases) could well have been the straw that broke the camels back and it gave them just another reason to walk away.

Not sure that will be the case this year See this thread: A poor FTA fixture wont' help the cause. There is a reason the AFL has given Carlton their prime time FTA in the first months of the season: get members, sell merchandise and help them get a major sponsor. Pity they didn't give us the same considerations.

The current membership figure is a lowly 16,689. (It picks up MCC memberships and the annual automatic rollovers which occurred on Oct 25). I don’t have the comparable figure for Week 4 of Oct last year. But the figures for week 3 of October in recent years were: 2017: 21,890. 2018 Shortfall at least 5,291 (24%) 2016: 19,026. 2018 Shortfall at least 2,337 2014: 17,625. 2018 Shortfall at least 936 It is reasonable to assume that it is the diehard supporters that pay up 'early'. So it would be alarming to the club that at least 24% of last year’s diehard renewals have not occurred. Equally alarming would be we are under the equivalent 2014 figure (ie after the announcement of Roos as the new coach). If 24% fewer diehard supporters have not renewed, one wonders how many of the new members that took us to 42,000 will also fall by the wayside. We can all guess the reasons for the non-renewals: Round 23 capitulation Missing finals The post round 23 communication vacuum from the club The early finals ticket brochure fiasco. (and maybe for some the handling/departure of a fan favourite) On DL we have done those to death and on here we are quite forgiving and our belief in the club and its management, while questioned at times, is very resilient. But rightly or wrongly those events hurt the club and seem enough for members to start voting with their wallets. DL posters can ridicule them and say they are not 'true supporters' but they have the right to not take out a membership if they are not happy with what the club has shown. PJ and co really have their hands full to get the disenchanted members back. I hope he has some aces up his sleeve because patience seems to have run out. If the trend doesn't reverse it will really hurt financially which we can ill afford with the ordinary fixture we have been given. It will also hurt PJ's attempts to get a front of jumper sponsor ( I believe AHG will not be renewing their sponsorship). We might be lucky to reach 40,000 for 2018. FWIW - I did my bit and signed up last week.

From what I've read Sydney, Collingwood, Geelong and Port were interested in Jack. Jack decided in week one of trade week that he wanted to go to Port but couldn't announce it as lose ends were being tied up. I took this to mean the trade picks and the portion of salary to be paid by Port. So I for one believe you that Jack had other offers. I heard WB's Football Manager, Chris Grant yesterday talk about Stringer and why he was being let go. Unlike mfc he made it clear the issues were best kept in-house as they wanted to treat Jake with dignity and respect. The same cannot be said of mfc's coach, captain and football manager. Their public critique of Jack was constant; a very harsh way to treat a loyal albeit imperfect employee who is being exited. People say everyone knew Jack's deficiencies. Probably true but our club didn't need to keep reminding everyone of them and certainly not after the deal was done, which Mahoney did. Not sure what was going on inside mfc but deliberately devaluing one's asset isn't very smart in my book. Despite all that, our Jack held his head high and did not once comment on what mfc was putting out to the public. He took it on the chin. He was gracious, respectful and showed goodwill to the end. You must be a very proud uncle, Chewy.

Quotes of Trade Week: It is difficult to negotiate when you are not prepared to walk away from the deal. And Best not to tell the world what chips you are prepared to play before negotiations even start. Backing down is embarrassing. A few clubs can learn those lessons for next year!

I don't think judging the trade period a 'success' is as simple as assessing the trades that happened. What didn't happen is equally important. Big picture: 1. Pick trading. Bulldogs got pick 16 and 40 and Blues got 25, 30 and a 2018 2nd round pick. Also Brisbane got pick 15 and 52 from Richmond for 20 and 25. Maybe we didn't want to participate but at face value we missed that party. 2. 2018 Trade Position In evaluating trade period success not only are the 2017 trades important; a clubs positioning for next year is also important. A number of clubs have stockpiled 2018 picks. They will have the strongest trading positions next year. I would love to have seen us use our 2017 middle picks to trade back into 2018 1st or an extra 2nd round to give us a bit more trading currency next year. 3. It was clear we shopped Kent around but no takers so no tick there. 4. To what extent have we improved our list and our ability to improve it further over the next 2/3 years? Huge gain in Lever. Some loss of skill in Watts. So improvement this year. But looking forward my big concern is a) our poor kicking skills and delivery to i50. Our existing players may improve their skills and decision making but if they don't have the inherent IQ and skill, the improvement will be limited. b) speed in the middle. So we still have important gaps in our list and because of our limited trade currency next year have limited opportunity to cover them. Yes there are two FA's we might get otherwise we will need to trade out talent to fill those gaps. Undoubtedly, Lever is a huge get. And Watts going will make a lot of people happy. But based on the big picture above, I rate the trade period a good pass.

Of course, whether he succeeds is up to Jack. Simply saying given the points I made, Port is a better fit for him.

I think he goes off the list for the Final List Lodgement to the AFL but any 2018 money paid as part of the settlement is part of our salary cap. Lumumba was not on our 2017 list per se. But because he retired after the Final List Lodgement and the AFL would not allow us to upgrade a rookie we only had 39 senior players. Payments for 2017 would have been in our 2017 salary cap. Below is the table post trade. We have 4 list spots so off to the Draft with 29, 31, 36 and 47. 84 used to upgrade J Smith. Edit: Image deleted

Agreed. As you say we will never know the full story. Jack seems to have lost the support of the coach and the leadership team before the season even started. I think Port will really suit him: He goes to a stable team, with a stable game plan (instead of one with massive player and coach turnover in the last 5 years). Has an experienced coach who wants him and who already has some runs on the board. Has a clear role which plays to his strength. With each of his 5 coaches they had a different view of the position/role he should play (fwd, defense, link up, fwd, ruck, link up, fwd). It sounds the role will be a cross between Gunston, Lynch (Crows), Dal Santo, Peter Borgoyne. The silk. He will no longer be the (failed) saviour to be exalted and stoned in equal measure. He shows few signs of having an inflated ego. To the contrary he is quite humble and gracious so I reckon he will relish being a cog in a wheel. For posters getting ready to attack or cherry pick these points I am not excusing any of Jack's faults or alleged behaviour issues. Simply saying Port is a much better place for him and his football.

When put like that it doesn't look such a steal for Carlton. Blues get pick 10 and pick upgrades of several spots in each round spread over 2017/18. When two first round picks are bandied about it looks quite dazzling, not so much when subsequent swaps are included as you have shown. In total Adelaide haven't really given up that much, especially if Carlton finish bottom 2-4 and they finish top 2-4 in 2018. Juts pick 10 plus and later small downgrades. They have kept the real jewel ie our 2018 first rounder to go with theirs in a very good draft year.

Official http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-10-19/garland-retires-but-takes-on-new-roles “We are really excited that he’s moving into a role in coaching – it’s a role that is going to cut across a number of our programs and allow him to develop many aspects of his coaching skills. The role includes positions within our AFLW side, our next generation academy, our AFL team and we’re also very happy to announce that he’ll be the inaugural senior coach of our VFLW Casey Demons team.” Well done Col on getting the VFLW coaching gig. Has always put the club first and got the most of himself. Great that he will still be involved as the red and blue runs thru his veins.

Skuit, What on earth were you drinking last night!

Good get! If so Jack was right, she would keep him on his toes! She even kept Uncle Bitters, Biffen and a few others in the The No T$ No B$ Thread on their toes!! A very good value poster I thought.

To hypothetically answer your question on my hypothetical suggestions: The differences: - we may have got better trade value either pick swap or $ saving. - Its very rare to hear home truths about one of your own spoken so harshly - our leaders would have come across as being more gracious. -It would have been a lot easier for the rank and file members to accept Jack's departure, if they didn't hear our leaders regularly malign him in the last 5/6 weeks. Are they 'material'? I don't know. Its exceptionally rare for me to criticise a player who wears our colours, even on an anonymous forum such as this. So I don't like it when our coach, captain and football manager engage in that. Not nice.

That was a wise edit, ET

Visited the Port website to see the other side of the coin. Here is his interview: http://embeds.audioboom.com/publishing/playlist/v4?bg_fill_col=%23ecefef&boo_content_type=list&data_for_content_type=%2F%2Faudioboom.com%2Fapi%2Fusers%2F2268911%2Faudio_clips&image_option=small&link_color=%2358d1eb&player_theme=light&src=%2F%2Faudioboom.com%2Fapi%2Fusers%2F2268911%2Faudio_clips#Jack Watts joins the FIVEaa Sports Show - Tuesday, 17 October, 2017 He refused to take the bait and criticise Mahoney for his truthful but ungracious comments about Jack, made after the trade was completed. Interestingly of the 5 coaches that Mahoney says Jack 'has been through' 4 were inexperienced rookies. I reckon the experienced Hinkley, like Roos will get the best from Jack. It sounds like the move to Adelaide is made easier as his girlfriend lives in Canada. The interviewers sound rapt to have Jack at Port. Its worthwhile listening to to get the other side. Jack is enthusiastic, honest, gracious and classy.

Firstly, my post was a hypothetical to answer a posters question on how the club could have handled it. ie Process not the decision. So it contained hypothetical text. I'm sure the club could have developed better words if it had chosen a straight bat strategy. Anyway, I will respond t the various comments. As I said info could be provided without the dirty laundry. WB did it. 1) See my comments about playing with a straight bat. 2) Could be explained in the light of Mahoney 'hypotetical text' I suggested 3) It was hypothetical text to demonstrate a point, not intended to be exact wording. 1)True but that isn't what Mahoney said. He clearly said they had agreed for Jack to explore options and if a trade suitable to both parties was not found Jack would remain at the dees and he knew what the club's expectations. 1) True. It was common knowledge that Watts was not a hard worker, the coach had been saying it since the preseason. Yes the media make up their own stories. But with Stringer the WB said nothing so did not validate them. By hanging out the dirty laundry mfc fed the media stories. 2) Have no idea how you formed that view. 3) no need to be insulting. My whole post was a hypothetical response to a question about process not the decision. Read my post in that context. Anyone wanting to make other comments - I'll repeat: my post was a hypothetical on process not the decision. People can go back and develop their own hypothetical response to the original poster. I'm done on this.

1) Post Season Jones and Goodwin say nothing. Yes they were asked questions about Watts. Standard answer should have been a straight bat eg Our List Management Team, like those of other clubs are looking to review and to improve our playing list. When any information is available about any player we will let you know. Instead they carried on with: not meeting expectations, Jack had been in a rut for 9 years, off-field behaviours, setting example for young players etc etc etc. Of course, the media jumped all over those comments which fueled more and more questions. They should have stuck with straight bat, straight bat, straight bat. Better still not put them on them on air. Post round 23 Mahoney should be our only spokesperson. 2) After the GF Mahoney should have come out and said something like: Our List Management Team has met and we have asked Jack Watts to explore his options with other clubs. We believe that other list opportunities will result in changes to the structure of our forward line and it is in both parties interests to take this path. If no suitable trade is found, Jack can remain at mfc. Instead he came over real heavy echoing Goodwin's and Jones criticisms and added a few more about being tired of having these conversations with Jack. Everything in itallics is factual. The dirty laundry wasn't necessary. The media could say what it wanted there was no reason for the club to validate it. The WB had a similar problem. Cutting Stringer was swift and brutal. Thereafter, no one at the club made a single solitary comment. They let the rumours float around but did not give them validity because they said nothing. Result: Supporters were shocked and upset at the decision but were accepting of the process. Instead MFC made it a death of a thousand cuts for Jack by having coach, captain and football manager give a regular commentary on Jack's deficiencies over a 5/6 week period. Result: Supporters were upset at the decision and the process. On this thread even most the ardent fans of the decision lamented how it was handled by the club.

Slight update, Fifty: Spencer has also left. So 6 out (exl Garland). J. Smith is in and we will use pick 84 for him. So atm we have 3 list spots but 4 live picks. Re other poster comments, we can only use pick 47 if Garland agrees to retire before the Draft (or we delist someone else, highly unlikely as all players are contracted).

Jack Watts: "Reading the comments and the messages I've been getting, it's been extremely humbling, but at the same time, Melbourne are on the right track and hopefully the supporters can see past this and jump back on board and support the club through what hopefully is a really successful time for them." After all the public critique of him by our leaders, to find the goodwill to give the above message to fans - well it just doesn't get any classier! Go well, young man.