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Everything posted by Lucifers Hero
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But what did he do to work their issues out with coaches? After all a key job of captaincy is to be the conduit between the playing group and the coaches and at times that means airing their grievances for them. So rather than be unimpressed, has he asked himself what he did to nip it in the bud. And if he did everything he could and players still went to AFLPA then something is really not working.
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Thanks. I can't imagine how gruelling it would be. I agree, I don't think it was laziness. Perhaps poorly thought thru but not laziness. For general info. Hawthorn did a 5-day camp which included doing laps carrying a weighted tractor tyre, then a 3 day hike. That didn't look like much fun either! Some fascinating pics on their website (if anyone can bear going to an opps website...)
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I suspect you are right and that it was 'unwittingly'. To support that - From reports some players rang AFLPA for 'guidance'. Not unreasonable by concerned players. There is every possibility the players just wanted to know their options, not necessarily looking for direct action by AFLPA. A bit naive on their part perhaps as that is not how unions work especially on H&S issues. At that point it was taken out of player hands and again from reports, AFLPA took up the cause. It does not seem much negotiating went on last week. The pin was duly pulled on the camp. There may well be a few sheepish players at training this week who would not be happy they have unwittingly brought this upon their teammates and coaches. Unfortunately, the media loves this stuff and sometimes mud sticks. Not a good look for us but hopefully, some other club/player slips up this week to give media hounds something else to talk about.
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Hey, Smokey. You mentioned earlier you are ex SAS and that the players made a smart decision. So you are one of the very few on here that has some idea of what the players went thru. While SAS training may differ from what Goodwin describes as 'a special operations camp was by senior police officers', can you give us an idea of what may have upset some players so much. And why said players would complain this year given the club had apparently overcome the shortcomings from 2016. (I believe the camp was to run 18th-20th ie includes two nights). Thanks.
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Hunt missed a year from mid 2014 with a serious back injury. Let's hope it isn't the same/related (if he is injured). On the positive side our club and doctors have successfully treated him and (Hogan) for serious back injuries and know how to look after them. If he is at training this week we know he is ok. Even if he isn't, it may not be serious - just precautionary rest till the new year. Let's wait till we hear something one way or the other.
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Cheers. I just happened to be sitting at my computer and saw the notification. As it turns out your info is more correct than mine so thanks.
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Thanks. It looks like there was a mailout so my comments about members not being advised are off the mark but it appears that not all members received the letter etc. Perhaps it is just a record keeping thing.
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Thanks. That looks like the notice for the 2015 AGM. Even so, I believe the requirement is for members to be individually advised in writing (paper or electronic) and provided with a copy of the Agenda and other stuff. For example Richmond's is here. http://www.richmondfc.com.au/club/about/annual-general-meeting and it lists the extra stuff. It seems AGM communications have been a bit clumsy this year going on poster's experiences above.
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Nor did I. Nor is there anything on club website advising of AGM Details. (Not sure about twitter or fb). I have officiated at incorporated clubs and my recollection is that there is an ASIC (?) requirement that members be advised in writing of an AGM. Not sure if this applies to AFL clubs tho. Our lack of notification was either someone in the Comms department messed up (big, big time) or the club didn't want many members who might ask tricky questions and forgot to tell us. Whatever the reason, someone in the club needs to be quietly held accountable. And perhaps, someone to revisit the AGM aspect of our Corporate Governance responsibilities. Agree, alarm bells are not ringing but I do hear a jingle or two and they aren't from Santa and his Reindeers!
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I would be very happy if we were: Finals in 4 years of last 5 with a premiership. 75,000+ members. Sponsors bashing down their door. A dedicated oval at Punt Road. No, we are the same old Melbourne. Languishing in our mediocrity.
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Some would say Macca is his mentor. But Macca's people management skills aren't too flash either and he is part of the day to day coaching panel so not always able to be fully objective. I've said elsewhere, I think Goodwin needs a Neil Balme, Chris Fagan (@hawthorn) type who oversees the footy department and challenges him on major team/player related decisions. Right now I feel the checks and balances on our coaches aren't as strong as they could be. We have Mahoney, but his role seems more admin/liason than what Balme did for Thompson/Scott/Hardwick and Clarkson and Fagan did for Clarkson. No coincidence for me that those two guys have presided over about 8-10 of the premierships 12 years.
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The Third. Telling Jones he is being demoted to co-captain (Jones' words) while playing golf would not pass the people management 101 test. Such things call for privacy with time and atmosphere to facilitate discussion. Jones was hit between the eyes with it with no heads-up to prepare him for the news.
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Preseason Training - Week commencing 11/12/17
Lucifers Hero replied to Demonland's topic in Melbourne Demons
No credit to me for this report - it is a copy of 'Proper Gander's' post on bigfooty: "Okay so I have quizzed Ancient about training today so here are the things I learned: Kent and Salem absent - probably hiding from Goody following the great boot camp mutiny. The rehab group included Hogan, Weed, Tommy - also the new dudes were separate from the main group doing some drills with Crossey and Garland, apart from the Casey guy whose name I can’t ever remember how to spell. Is it Fritsch? Anyway he was with the main group. Ancient didn’t see Petracca training at all but he must have done stuff with the rehab group early because he had a nice chat with him as he (Ancient) arrived and Trac was heading back to AAMI. He was shirtless so presumably had been running or something, unless he is just your run-of-the-mill partial nudist. Hogan and Weed had a sort of goal kicking competition which Hogan won apparently. It sounds like they were doing the same sort of drills as previous sessions. So they spent some time split into groups of defenders, mids and forwards doing things. Lewis is grouped with defenders at present. Ancient reckons Lever looks excellent, and is very vocal and encouraging and so forth. A very self confident young man. He also singled out Brayshaw and Oliver for training house down honours. There was lots of running and then some match simulation type drills, moving the ball quickly through the corridor. The general impression was that everyone looked sharp so we had better win lots of things or I’ll get angry. Apparently McCartney gave Pig a mighty serve for something or other - lots of authentic yelling and “if you don’t like it you can leave” stuff. Don’t know what provoked it, but Hibberd didn’t leave so presumably learned to like whatever it was that needed liking. That’s pretty much all the detail I have except for the report that the Santa Claus seemed creepy somehow and Daisy was having her photo taken with about a million kids". ...Thanks 'Proper Gander' - a very entertaining report. -
The boot camps haven't caused problems for our Gosch's neighbours. Storm have managed a few minor premierships/flags. 2013 article: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/melbourne-storm-players-endure-brutal-boot-camp/news-story/2df448b8c2f07ff0259a074426f8962c Brutal is an understatement! No complaints from Storm players. 2016 article: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/storm/inside-craig-bellamys-infamous-preseason-boot-camp-for-melbourne-storm-recruits/news-story/3dc8c03c030dda05e19779e6312baf9b Whatever happened something went wrong for us last year. Did we chat with Bellamy/Storm before deciding to run it again this year? Did we canvas our leadership group about running it again? The merits of the camp aside, the outside interpretation is again: 'mentally weak'. The players have taken a stand. Good on them. But lets not go missing or fading out of games. The days of picking and choosing need to end.
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http://www.theage.com.au/afl/melbourne-demons/melbourne-training-camp-cancelled-after-players-consult-aflpa-20171214-h04vri.html Quote: '...Melbourne players met with the AFLPA to seek guidance on how to approach the situation with the club". Does that suggest players had tried to negotiate with the club and failed so took an official grievance to the 'Union'. Should have been sorted without players going to the 'Union'. It might explain why it was cancelled so late but for mine, makes the situation look even worse.
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That is true. But one would think there would be negotiation with players on whatever the 'deal breaker' aspect of the camp was for them. After all the article says: "The club's football department was satisfied they had taken significant measures to increase the safety for players after last year's camp". So the club had acted on some known issues. Negotiating the activities at the camp is acceptable (not ideal). But to boycott cancel the whole shebang. I'm speechless and left wondering what sort of team are we?
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It isn't about the training options for the last few days before Christmas. It is about the poor communication between players/leaders and footy staff. It is about taking players out of their comfort zones. And more importantly it is about not allowing players to call the shots. Slippery slope right there. So what now - anytime a player(s) don't want to do so something, go when it is their turn or whatever, they cry 'too hard boss'!!
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Big time deja vu happening forme - players cancelled training with Dean Bailey (ref Jim Stynes book). Look where that got us! On any level this does not sit right: This camp would have taken weeks/months to schedule and organise. Were the players not consulted/told about it till last week? Doesn't sound like two-way communication was happening. Did the leadership group not sass out the players earlier? How did it come to this. Other clubs walk the Kokada track - now that is gruelling. Referring to Tyson and Salem last year is irrelevant. Injuries can happen at any time - just ask Petracca who did his ACL simply going for a mark. But we go weak at the knees at a few days at a boot camp. Sheesh! We finally ditched the 'bruise free football' label. But last year we proved the 'mentally weak' label over and over again, right up to round 23. Respect lost with 17 other teams Club talks about being ruthless. Given the chance to walk the talk and do something really tough the players back off. I'm staggered the club allowed the players to call the shots. So much for Goodwin's tough talk. My expectations for 2018 have been jolted - backwards.
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http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/michael-christian-to-replace-afl-match-review-panel-under-new-judiciary-system-20171214-h04gp5.html "In his role as the single decision-maker, Christian will liaise directly with Hocking, who will tick off on each incident". So much for MRP independence if the AFL Hocking is involved in each case to tick it off. There are some good changes re the penalties so it will hopefully be better. It certainly seems easier to get off or get a light(er) penalty - not sure if that is a good thing. But to have one person adjudicate just opens it up to bias. And I have little confidence in Hocking/AFL role to not just fudge it to get the outcome they want. I feel this is a backward step. Far better to have a 3 person panel with a Chair and to have some legal experience on the panel. Edit: This article summarises the changes a bit better http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-14/major-changes-to-afl-match-review-panel
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Last-Touch Rule implemented for AFLW
Lucifers Hero replied to Demonland's topic in AFLW Melbourne Demons
Yes, the heat is another important factor causing fatigue. It and other points are raised in this article. https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/three-new-rules-will-take-effect-in-the-aflw-in-2018-but-they-havent-all-been-received-well/news-story/642cc66607d637aca17250f3a1440a55 I have great respect for Nicole Livingston but her sporting experience is in a repetitive individual sport, played indoors and is a 'sprint' in comparison to an AFLW game. Not sure how deeply she looked into the reasons behind stats (of only one season) and how widely she consulted. I wonder if she fully realises players are part time and have full time jobs scattered all over the state. As a newcomer to the game to not give players and the AFLPA sufficient time to digest and input is awful. It is one thing for each change to be ticked off in isolation but taking the 3 changes together hasn't been properly assessed especially for H&S issues. Players will pay the price (fatigue and injury) and the spectacle will suffer. -
Robbo says the Dees MUST be ruthless.
Lucifers Hero replied to Demonland's topic in Melbourne Demons
@hemingway sorry about the wrong pub - just thought Robbo would go to a club sponsor. Hope the sporting globe don't hear about Robbo doing mfc business at their competitor a few doors away! -
Robbo says the Dees MUST be ruthless.
Lucifers Hero replied to Demonland's topic in Melbourne Demons
Directly opposite the Town Hall is the Sporting Globe (corner of Lyndhurst st) and as they are an mfc sponsor, I'm guessing that is where Robbo can be found. http://www.sportingglobe.com.au/melbournefc I haven't been there so can't say what it is like but I would imagine Robbo would be quite entertaining. -
Last-Touch Rule implemented for AFLW
Lucifers Hero replied to Demonland's topic in AFLW Melbourne Demons
To me the reasons for the 'last touch' rule is a bit flimsy: to reduce congestion and increase scoring. That may happen in the men's game but less likely in AFLW as its teams have only 16 players. I watched most AFLW games last year and congestion was rarely an issue. And it is hard to see how the rule change will 'improve scoring'. There are two reasons why scoring was 'low' last year: 1) they play 15 minute quarters (17 min in 2018) and 2) women can't kick as far as men and so it takes longer to reach the scoring zone. It is hard to see an AFLW team kicking more that 60 points very often. Scoring shouldn't be compared to AFL as they play an extra 30 to 40 minutes. I have a H&S issue with the 3 changes (ie Last touch rule, extra 2 minutes for each quarter and one less person on the bench to reduce rotations). They will exhaust players faster. Players who are part time and don't have a lot of conditioning behind them. The AFL should give the game a few years to settle before making these sort of rule changes. -
Preseason Training - Week commencing 11/12/17
Lucifers Hero replied to Demonland's topic in Melbourne Demons
As others have mentioned Goodwin may sometimes soften selection criteria and play someone a bit out of form/fitness, needs the experience or doesn't play his role well one week. To be fair players are entitled to the odd poor game without being automatically dropped. But there are other criteria I am sure he will not ease up on: Follow instructions! Do the Team Things! Behave off-field! Train hard! That is why Harmes, Hannan and ANB got games and Kent did not. Goodwin has more depth and I would expect him to enforce those disciplines much more next year. And, team selection will be where he enforces them. -
A few new faces on the calendar. In: Jetta, Hunt, Garlett and TMc. Out: Tyson, Vince, Watts, Brayshaw. Rapt to see Jetta there. To go from delisting, to rookie, to AA squad is a superb achievement. A loyal servant of the club who is the best he can be and still taking on challenges to improve himself. Respect. Have been a huge fan of Hunt since I first saw him play, early in 2016, so delighted to see him on the calendar. A player who did not come in with any fanfare but has worked damn hard to cement his place in the side and now a deserving fan favourite. Edit: Forgot to mention, Petracca gets the honour of the cover page.