Hannibal

I've had this view too, but recent conversations with 2 separate and very senior football people at 2 different clubs have led me to question this view. Drafting is clearly important, but our development has been diabolical and the lack of growth in some of our young individuals is most definitely environment driven.

Development also has to be sustained. You can have great processes in place, but you need to back yourself and have patience. Richmond are only starting to show the fruits of Harwicke's long journey.

^^^ I'm not sure I agree. Some of his long switches from one side of the ground to the other have worked well this preseason and are tailor made to Roos' game-plan.

Yes, that seems to be the real issue.

There are a host of restricted agents who have left and gone to the club of their choice. Goddard, Troy Chaplin, Dale Thomas, Monfries and Crameri are just a recent few off the top of my head. Restricted, or unrestricted makes no difference in my view. Clubs no longer hog tie a player who wants to go if they're restricted, or unrestricted. They may well try and change their mind, or play hardball, as Essendon did with Crameri and the Dogs, but in the end they didn't stop him. I'm happy to disagree.

Whose faith is blind ?

No. It's a leverage the club wouldn't use. No clubs use them.

So Fan, do you have the answer to your question ?

I disagree. Either way he'd get to his destination if he wants to go.

I have a feeling he meant what he typed.

I haven't read beyond about the first dozen posts, so I may be repeating an opinion made elsewhere... Restricted or unrestricted virtually makes no difference. If a player wants to go they'll go and the club won't stop them. Name a restricted player that wanted to go, but was stopped by his club ? There may be one, but there wouldn't be much more. He'll stay if he sees a bright future and he'll go if he doesn't. Restricted or unrestricted doesn't matter.

You have a "distinct feeling". Solid stuff.

Shocking news. I feel very sad. Terrible for his wife and boys. I hope they're always made welcome at the Melbourne Football Club. R.I.P Dean.

Yes, it's my view that it was a mistake to take Toumpas over Wines. Just an opinion, but I'm happy to have it. It doesn't mean I think Toumpas won't have a good career, just not a "Wines career". Supporters underestimate the worth of competitiveness and aggression at AFL level and imo you do too. Never saw Fyfe as a junior, but his courage in marking contests is crazy and his attack on the footy manic. His courage has been evident from day one. If you want to paint him as a fairy at junior level that's fine, but I'm not buying it.

You said, "Trengove was recruited as an all around midfielder who could deliver the ball forward when in space, but does not have the speed to get on the end of the ball in space." i disagree, which is why I brought up McLean, Hannebery and Bartel. I watched McLean a lot last year and he was always getting footy in the clear. It was one of the noticeable things about his year. His improved fitness and running allowed that. Trengove won't have any difficulty getting "on the end of the ball in space" in a better team with improved endurance and collectively a group with better running patterns. No problem whatsoever. To answer one of your questions, no he doesn't have an "outside" mids body and yes needs to improve his inside ability. I still see an all-round role. He doesn't need an outside mids body to gain outside possessions. The rest of your post was OK.

Who has said Viney wasn't in the ballpark ? Viney played 13 games compared to Wines' 24, so he's at a disadvantage already (yes injuries impact the year you've had). Nine of Wines first 14 games were 20+ disposal games. In his first 14 games Wines averaged 21.5 possessions per game. So the first half of his year he was super impressive. Naturally a first year player tires, which happened to Wines. Wines also had 18 possessions and kicked 2 goals in a final against Collingwood in which Port won. He had the better year.

I don't see how anyone could say Viney was MORE impressive without showing clear bias. Now you'll probably think I don't like Viney.

No, I know you never said he was a bad player. Brock McLean wins most of his footy in space, not as an inside mid. He's doing this on the back of his fitness/running. Yes, Hannebery is an elite runner. He was doing triathlons at 16. He doesn't get footy from his pace, which is slowish, he gets it from his elite endurance, game sense and the benefits of playing in a good team. Trengove will develop his inside game, which he clearly needs to, and when his fitness improves he'll be quite capable of getting on the end of it in space. I don't see this as an issue. Bartel is another who's slow, but is always getting on the end of it.

You're just exposing yourself as having zero balance or perspective. It reduces the value of your opinion.

Roos has already said that young players play on merit, so it's not a matter of sitting them in the two's all year. Hannebery played 7 games in his first year under Roos and the older Jetta played 20. He gives games on merit and when appropriate exposes them for a taste. I have no doubt Salem and Jay will get games this year. We have a host of reasons why players haven't developed. The whole tanking fiasco and psyche of the group at the time MOST certainly wouldn't have helped either. The place was a shambles.

I thought you would have a better grasp of this. You're underestimating a player's natural competitiveness. It's impossible to manufacture. It's not just Wines' size, which obviously helps, it's his manic appetite for the contest, which when combined with his physical attributes becomes a wonderful package. Nat Fyfe has Wines mindset too, but without the body. Toumpas doesn't have the mindset and never will. Hogan has it, Wines has it and it is a strength that seemingly gets overlooked by supporters. Btw, this isn't to say that Toumpas won't become a valuable mid, perhaps in the mould of a Montagna if we're lucky, but there aren't any guarantees. We already know that Wines will be a super player and competitive midfield beast for a decade. It WAS a mistake.

Elite running, game sense and knowing your role enables this. Hannebery isn't fast, but he's an elite runner in a good team. Brock McLean isn't fast, but he's reinvented himself with a fit body and improved running and now gets many of his touches in space. Trengove's lack of preseasons has curtailed his running, but I believe he'll be able to develop his inside and outside roles the fitter he gets and within a stronger on-ball unit.

It's so much more than bad drafting.

Exciting, isn't it ?

Btw, I've been meaning to say, how good was Sam Mitchell in close ? He's amazing. So slippery and so composed. He waits for the last moment to release a handball, which is invariably perfect. He balks, blind turns, does the shimmy, he's just so hard to tackle.