Hannibal

If you're the one that is using age as an excuse then of course it makes a difference to the point YOU'RE making. It's YOUR point, not mine. If you use age to make YOUR point then get it right. Then YOU'RE not corrected by people like me who are making NO point other than correcting YOU.

He turns 20 in 4 months.

I don't disagree with a single word. I am a bit of a blue sky junkie. If I wasn't I wouldn't be here. And yes, I supported Neeld in his first year, as I thought the playing group needed someone with a hard edge and the list culling, but I realised at the beginning of the season that he was a total crackpot out of his depth. I still believe in Viney, but he's had a tough run with injuries and will be better when others can capitalise on his good inside work. Who would have thought it could have got to this ?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I pass on information as I see it. The training standards from a quality and professionalism point of view were vastly superior to previous years. And I passed that information on. When the AFL season started we were diabolically crap. And I passed that information on. Early on I thought Mark Neeld was little more than a spin doctor and border-line crackpot. And I passed that information on. I disseminate and process what is put before me and form the best conclusions I can from the available data. I hoped Jack Watts would be a star and was desperate to draft him, but he plays like a girl. I thought Cale Morton had genuine talent. He was a pea-heart. When I first saw Trengove play I thought we'd landed a beauty. He's a park footballer. One of the more baffling reversals of early form I've seen, but we all have opinions as to why. I have positions on many things and people, but unlike some, I'm not wedded to earlier views and I don't let any natural bias cloud my thinking. You sponsor Jordie McKenzie and let your bias control your judgment. I call him out to be the hack he is. You were buying shares in Daniel Bell when he needed a hospital ward. We're all prone to busts.

Maybe I watch players more closely than you. I never expected him to "dominate", but he's been well below my modest expectations. EDIT: But that doesn't mean I've put a line through him as a player or have wiped any prospect of him becoming a gun. It's simply an objective evaluation of his first season.

It's not the stats that are concerning some, it's the way he's playing. He could have 30 possessions, but I may not necessarily be impressed. Conversely he could have 15 and I could love his game. Jimmy may well become A-grader and I was all for recruiting him, but it's fair to say I've been very surprised and somewhat disappointed with his transition to AFL footy in albeit his first year.

WTF are you ?

Take it easy, China. I merely responded to a post of yours which I didn't quite agree. Nothing more, nothing less. But if it hurts your feelings I'll desist in future.

I don't know WTF you're talking about. I rarely read you and previously had you on ignore. No disrespect, but I wouldn't read you for footy content.

I was very disappointed in him early days, as I stated ad nauseum. It got to the point that his leap in improvement WAS indeed a surprise. But I having seen him play as a junior, advocating we draft him at the time, and subsequently recruiting him as a first rounder, I don't consider his B+ status some miraculous performance. He's reached a level that was commensurate with his talent as a junior. His under-performing in the early years was probably more baffling, but somewhat the norm at this club. He's not A-grade in my eyes, but I wouldn't bother debating it. If some do fair enough.

That may be your ceiling. Jones has reached the level he always should have.

Irrespective of the mind-boggling decision to award him votes, it's sad watching him play. He's little more than a park footballer. Struggles to get it, uses it poorly when he does, and spends his life chasing tail.

Toumpas will become a decent AFL player, but already there are signs he's not going to become a gun AFL mid, which is what you want from a top 5 draft pick. Rarely have I seen a young top-performed junior seem so uncertain of himself and out of his depth. He's admitted that he's struggled to adjust to AFL footy. He's neat and will be far better as he matures and plays in a decent team, but I struggle to see any "star factor" with Toumpas. He's the type of player that will do well as a linkman in a chain of disposals, but I've seen nothing to suggest he can initiate play. The best AFL mids are the architects, they're the drivers that set up play and initiate proceedings, but Jimmy seems an over the top hand ball receive kind of guy, who then delivers it nicely. Supporters will say, but he's only 19 and hasn't played much footy, etc. Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious. Jimmy may become what we all hope, but the best young mids usually show what they'll become even when they starting out on their fledgling careers. I've seen enough star mids start out in my lifetime to at least have some early concerns regarding Toumpas and what he brings to the table.

What are you talking about ? Wingard regularly flies for marks that take extreme courage.

If there's a more disappointing player running around in the AFL than Trengove tell me who it is. We ALL know the excuses, but something seriously isn't right. He's border-line Amateur A-grade at the moment and that's at odds with what I saw when he was a teenager. Something horrible has gone wrong - injuries, coaching, ??? I don't really need to hear the copious excuses, it's just sad watching him play.

My first sentence was directed at the poster in question. My second point was directed at the thread.

And it doesn't mean he won't be. Bias ? It's unbelievable the bias that supporters on this site have. Extraordinary really.

So you're judging a first year players status at their club based on the fact they've started as a sub at round 13 ? You're privy to their inner sanctum, the management philosophy, training loads, etc. Or maybe you're biased.

Wines gets the ball in his hands more often, is maniacal in his approach to the man and ball, and makes things happen. Toumpas links play, kicks neatly, but doesn't make much happen. Toumpas doesn't get involved. He's not making the play. As I said, he's neat, he runs on the outside and we need his type, but right now he's so far behind Wines in impacting games it's not funny. That's not to say he won't impact games, or that he won't end up being the better player, but right now he's a mile off. But that's OK. Let's judge both in 5 years time.

The jury will be out for years. Wines is the type of competitive beast every club would kill for. He was truly sensational yesterday.

There was no bullet to dodge.

Too kind. Too much benefit of the doubt. Half true, half wrong. Does avoid contested marking situations. But hopefully will improve this failing. We live and learn. P.S. I miss you.

If I was him and I had about 5 Vic clubs that wanted me, I'd not meet Melbourne either. Why meet the club if I have a preference for others and I'm fortunate enough to have a number of suitors ?

That may be hard given our present plight, but it also isn't necessary. Robert Walls loves telling a story about Craig Lambert. He told Lambert that they'd be taking him as they had first access to him. Lambert said I won't play for you. Brisbane took him anyway. Walls rang Lambert after the draft and Lambert told him to go and ... Lambert cooled down and decided he had no choice, but to go, as standing out of footy for 2 years wasn't much of an option. He stayed 18 years in Queensland. He stayed on as a coach after he retired and loves the club. You've just got to get players onto your list. If you become a good club the rest takes care of itself.

I'm not sure if this has been posted, but: "Carlton and Geelong are understood to be leading a four-club assault on reluctant Gold Coast midfielder Josh Caddy. Caddy, who last week told the Suns he wanted to return to Victoria to continue his career, did the rounds this week in Melbourne, speaking with four clubs after narrowing his options following huge interest from most clubs. It is believed he had previously declined an invitation to meet with Melbourne." It's going to be very difficult to get players to want to come to us without offering silly dollars.