Macca

My issue is we're then left with only 2 KPF's. One gets injured and then it makes it hard to win games. As it stands, Hogan can't get on the park and Dawes has had his injury issues. Fingers crossed both of them are always available but I still believe we need a 3rd option anyway. Pedersen can pinch hit and Gawn might come on but a solid, 3rd, KPF would be ideal. We need another player who can play as a KPF and I've been quite happy with the role that James has played. Now, he may be gone anyway but as of right now, I see him as a required player.

Yep, and if we use the PP qualification rules as a guide, it's astonishing that we didn't receive a PP last year. Not even a 2nd round PP - nothing. Did they think we were tanking? (again) I understand that these 2 types of draft compensation have no real connection but as you intimated, the AFL can't ordinarily be trusted.

Great news ... Paul will need at least 2 more off seasons to get our list up to shape. It's ages away, but entering 2016, we might even be a contender for a top 4 spot (if everything falls into place) Next year, we need to get as many wins as we can and be pushing for a spot in the 8. A fit Hogan and 3 more topline midfielders and watch us climb the ladder. I wonder if this news has some effect on Frawley's decision? I'm holding out hope that James stays because we need him (in my opinion) Otherwise ... we may need to use a pick that we'd ordinarily use on a midfielder on another KPP.

I reckon to get the chance to represent your country at just about anything is an achievement in itself. Got to be a truckload better than us hack footy players and cricketers ... we're a dime a dozen! Jess' bronze shouldn't be downplayed. Track & Field and in particular, distance running, is a tough sport for any individual to medal in. Mick Shelley's gold in the men's marathon was a great achievement also. But well done Jess!

Fair enough dc My call stands though and it's related to the fact that we didn't get a PP last year. Whether we want to accept it or not, that 7 month investigation had residual effects. I hope James stays and my reasoning is partly because I'm not convinced we'll get band 1 compensation for him. Also, we need a 3rd big bodied forward to support Dawes and Hogan. Certainly someone who can hold down a key forward post if one of them is injured. I really hope that James finishes off the season well and ... stays. In a perfect world, we can use our top end draft picks on some quality mids.

Trying hard to not go too far off topic here but there's an obvious connection (IMO) ... If Frawley were to go, would we get definitely get "band 1" compensation if we also had the no.1 draft pick? The powers that be might think it's a bit rich for us to have both picks 1 & 2 in the draft and award us a "band 2" pick instead (which is at the end of the 1st round of picks) But ... if our first round draft pick was say, pick 4, they then might look at things a bit more favourably and grant us band 1 compensation (pick 5 in that case) Remembering that he's currently not in our top 10 salary earners* and ... the compensation would also depend on his age and the length and amount of his possible new contract at another club. Apart from that, I suspect that the "bands" may be judged, in part, arbitrarily. The AFL won't necessarily be doing us any favours here. *This is because his current contract was "front ended" Edit: fixed the "band" explanation

We (arguably) played our best game for the year against Port last week. Let's face it, if we'd have won the game, we'd almost certainly be calling it our best win for the year. So, I say we improve on that form and blow Brisbane off the park ... the players must be absolutely sick and tired of losing so they might double their efforts. Why not? That would make it 5 wins with 3 winnable games to come (the Hawks game will be tough) 7 wins or maybe even 8 wins with another 4 or 5 games that we "couda" won is not a bad return (all things considered) Most of us would have taken that at the start of the season. I'm still hoping that it happens.

You might have noticed that I've focused on finishing the season off with more wins (3 would be nice and 4 would be great) That would give us a 7/15 season or an 8/14 season and almost certainly would rule us out from finishing last. Sounds and looks a damn side better than a 17 or 18 loss season. I know it's a bit of a longshot but you can bet that the players and coaching staff firmly believe that we can win all our remaining games - and so they should too. That's the business they're in - winning.

I agree with a lot of what you've said and ... I like your "blue sky" thinking, BB but ... essentially, you and I are looking at this from different platforms. I reckon that's the case with nearly all conflicting views. The conflict often comes because we're not on the same page to begin with. Your summary about where the club is currently at is hard to argue with and I'm not arguing those points. We just have different views on the repercussions of finishing last. We're going to find out one way or the other (soon enough) I made the very same argument when the discussion about whether we should keep Neeld on or not was about. My argument then (and I stand by it) was that all sorts of areas of the club can be adversely affected if the misery continued. Getting Roos and PJ on board has lifted a lot of those areas but we don't need a setback that a spoon could possibly bring. Don't get me wrong, it's not the end of the world but ... instead of a huge growth spurt that a club might have with a 'relatively' successful season, we may be looking at a bit of incremental growth only with a bottom of the ladder finish. Of course, it's debatable what a relatively successful season is or isn't but a strong finish to the year for us (3 wins?) wouldn't hurt (considering where we've come from) I'm specifically talking about off field growth and revenues as I believe that on the field, we're in excellent hands with Roos and co. Bringing in some established talent can be effected too if a club is not looked upon with favourable eyes. It's my belief that we need to trade for some genuine A grade talent and even though a better placed draft pick might get you that talent, I firmly believe that far more importantly, we need to be an attractive destination. 18th from 18 ain't attractive. Picks 3, 4 or 5 might be just as valuable as pick 1 to another club.

Ok, I see posters who voted 8-10 as "caring" and those who voted 1-3 as "not caring" (in terms of being upset about finishing last) The people who "care" seem to be generally fairly passionate in their views about not finishing last. A number of those who "don't care" seem to be having 2 bob each way. That's an educated guess of course, I can't offer definitive proof (unless more posters want to be more transparent on their motives) What I'm saying is that it seems that many who don't care have an ulterior motive - the no.1 draft pick on offer. Not all, of course, but there's a number of people who have already admitted as such. How could any supporter group have a figure as high as 43% with a "no care" attitude to finishing last? It doesn't make sense unless there's another "hidden" reason. Are we that brow-beaten that the worst prize on offer in sport is in some cases a goal? What do you honestly think, old dee? Please don't answer with a "I don't care"

Yeah, I'm not concerned at all with the whole UK thing, TD. It's going to be a close run thing with England though. They're strong in T&F (that much I know) so we'll need to win a number of gold medals in a number of other sports.

I was obviously not being specific to any one particular person. There would of course be a few who are happy to win the wooden spoon and with it, all the accolades that come with winning that prized possession. In all seriousness, winning the spoon won't be helping the club on an overall basis - you'd only have to ask PJ or Roos about that one. Do you reckon that either of those men would have an "I don't care" attitude? I'll say it again, I believe this has been our best year (so far) since 2006 - we just have to finish off well. Edit: Our most recent spoons were in '08 & '09 - whilst it must be acknowledged that the club was embarking on a campaign of re-building with youth, it should also be acknowledged that we weren't able to trade in any top players in both those off seasons (following those 2 years)

Maybe for you But do you speak for all the the other "I don't care" people? ... like stuie and a few others on this thread. Not caring about finishing last is draft pick related - there are levels of importance of wanting that no.1 draft pick but nonetheless, the lure is there and it's why a number of people voted the way they have (IMO) ... and it's quite ok to think that way. I just don't agree. By the way, if we didn't have a draft, do people honestly think that 43% of posters would still have an "I don't care" attitude about finishing on the bottom of the ladder?

I edited your post because of your condescending opening line. If you want to engage, kindly put your manners back in.

The bad far outweighs the good if we win another wooden spoon. And at least people like 'stuie' are honest with their intentions. He may it quite clear that he wants a better spot in the draft (and with it, more bargaining power) Good on him for saying what a lot of others might be a quite hesitant to say. Now, I don't share stuie's thoughts and have an almost opposite view. I simply don't care about a better placed draft pick and never have. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong - it's just shared opinions. And yeah, I do care about our standing in the football community - it's sport for crying out loud. What the hell are we here for? For those who don't care - please yourself. But don't tell me that this "I don't care" argument is not draft pick related. It is.

Do you want to try again? This time, leave my whole post in so as my words are not taken out of context. To edit and thereby isolating one part out of a post is poor form. You should know that. You're effectively putting words into my mouth by editing the way you did. By the way, I never edit a post when I quote it. (I do sometimes highlight a part of a post)

If we do keep losing and "win" the spoon, some of those same people who voted 1-3 will almost certainly be disappointed with those losses. You can't have it both ways - if you want the spoon, you effectively want the team to lose. Let's not beat around the bush here, saying "I don't care" effectively means in that in a number of people's eyes, they don't necessarily want the team to win any more games - they're "happy" to lose. Not all of those who voted 1-3 of course, but at the current standing of 43% voting 1-3, there must be more than a few that feel that way. Otherwise, we've got a disproportionate number of supporters who "don't care" (if we won the spoon) In an ideal world, we win 4 of our last 5 games but realistically, that's a big ask - it's entirely possible though. Just imagine how we'd all feel if that were to happen? It would give us some real hope for the future. What hope does winning another spoon give you? (18th from 18) ... a chance to wait 3-6 years to see if our draft pick is any good or not. Unless we trade that pick of course - but what are the chances of that happening? Besides, pick 3,4 or 5 could be a much better player than pick 1 anyway. Be careful what you wish for.

I really don't know enough about the form lines in all the sports ... come to think of it, I know about as much as the next person! Be nice if we could get over the line though ... a 55 - 54 scoreline will do (golds) Hoping for a Scotland overall 3rd - no idea why ... maybe it's because of the default games theme song ... Proclaimers/500 miles Edit: Michael Shelley has just won the men's marathon - top effort to defeat the Africans (especially the Kenyans) Edit(2) ...and now Jessica Trengove (sister of Jack) has won the bronze in the women's marathon. Well done!

People are eyeing off the no.1 pick too, BB ... and the bargaining power it would almost certainly give the club. Let's get that bit right out in the open. I don't believe for one minute that over 46% of voters have a "no care" attitude towards finishing last (if you voted 1-3, you effectively don't care)

I truly believe that if we finish the season off well it will make quite a difference. We can carry that momentum into next season and that's really important. On the other hand, if we were to lose our last 5 games and just let things "peter out" then where's the momentum? I don't believe that last bit will happen anyway - Roos will push hard for wins because he knows the importance of those wins - and, a number of our players are playing for their football lives. I'm confident we'll finish strongly.

I notice that you've conveniently left out the lapsed members or prospective members and narrowed the focus down to auskick numbers only. I'd venture to say that 3 more wins would make a difference anyway. But again, it's the sum of all the parts that matters here. I'd rather broaden the argument even further to ... sponsorship, Foundation heroes revenue, reserved seating sales, Prime time TV games, our fixturing in general, the corporate dollar and other such important areas. From your personal point of view, I get that you won't be greatly affected. Like me, your rusted on. But what about the bigger picture?

How many perspective new members, Auskick kids and lapsed members do people think will get on board if we win the spoon? As opposed to that, how many will get on board if we finish the season with say, another 3 wins? If you can see a disparity in numbers then finishing last does, absolutely, make a difference. Now, I also believe that the club has lifted it's game and is going places ... in my opinion, we've had our best year (so far) since 2006 but that's "by the bye" ... it's not really about me. Jackson made a plea to lapsed or prospective members to have a look at what we served up before getting on board. IMO, those people "generally" want to see wins - and unfortunately, we haven't delivered (yet) Another 3 wins would make such a difference. Doesn't sound like much but it would effectively nearly double our wins tally. We need to grow as a club and finishing 18th from 18 stifles your growth (especially if you're not a big club)

I see Tom Scully won the 40km points race last night in the velodrome. Details Surely that can't be true ... In other news we've hit the front in the gold medal tally .. Oz 18 England 17 (Scotland 11)

It's always important to have a bit of an eye on the big picture, 'rjay' Whilst a spoon wouldn't be as disastrous as in previous years (mainly because we're in good hands with Roos & PJ at the helm) nonetheless, it would still hamper us. I'm mainly looking at the angle of us being an attractive destination for prospective talent. The Frawley going or not going tosses up at least 2 scenarios - if he stays, we might then go after a free agent or 2 ... and if he goes, we might use the compo pick we get for him on a talented player or 2 from the other clubs. We need to be a club that players want to come to. And we almost certainly won't be getting a PP regardless of how we finish the season - people need to let that one go. If we couldn't get one last season, no club should ever get one. PJ should still apply for one ... just in case

Does anyone honestly think that any of the Pies, Blues, Dons or Tigers fans would be happy about "winning" the wooden spoon? The "spoon" might give Frawley a good enough reason to take off and what about the effects on membership, sponsorship, reserved seating sales, foundation heroes, the corporate dollar, Auskick numbers, prime time TV slots, our fixture in general and the effects on the supporter group? No thanks. Also, we need to attract some A grade talent to the club by way of trades and/or free agency. We'd have trouble getting a 2nd glance from a prospective star with another spoon attached to our name ... and do we really want to burden another kid with the no.1 draft pick next to his name? We've come so far in terms of restoring pride and respectability - we need to finish the season off well. We just got to within a few points of a top 4 side away from home just last week - just imagine how we'd be all feeling if we'd got over the line? A lot of us here are rusted on. We won't be adversely effected one way or the other. However, we need new members and we need a number of our lapsed members to return. Forget 40,000 members - we need to have an aim of 50,000+ members. Another spoon would impede our progress.