Macca

From WADA's submission in the CAS hearing ... Mr Dank has a history of use of TB-4 in athlete doping programs.

I actually felt we should have been able to take advantage and win ... they (Arizona) didn't play a great game but we still only had scored 13 points up until that hail-mary play. Anyway, they go on and if they can play to their best, they can make it to the SB The big story from today is the Pats though - they look like they're getting back to their best form and Edelman, Gronkowski & Amendola will all be better for the run. They're going to be hard to stop.

Much like the 49ers/Ravens SB of a few years ago, pass interference wasn't really payed all game. At least we got some consistency ... GB didn't create enough chances to score TD's and that's why we lost. Arizona were marginally better but they were still better ... the Fitzgerald yards after reception was the killer blow. They got lucky with the tipped TD but you make your own luck I'm bloody annoyed but it's not like we deserved to win and somehow lost ... the Cardinals can play a lot better too and they'll need to do that against Carolina or Seattle. Anyway, whilst Rodgers is healthy, we're always going to be a threat ... obviously Nelson will be back but a team can never be too strong in the WR and TE position. Our offensive line needs improvement whilst our much-maligned defense can get better even though we were reasonably good at defense this season. Lacy needs a lot more fibre in his diet ... you can't be running out of steam in the one thing you are paid to do.

It was a 'Favre' type throw by Palmer (across his body) ... too good and we did well to take it to O/T. Fitzgerald was the difference ... MVP ... 176 yards receiving and we couldn't stop him. Janis was great for the Packers but it was one of those games that came down to whoever had the ball last ... that's how it felt to me. I don't mind losing to a great play (even though we should have had better coverage on Fitzgerald at that stage of the game) Made a game of it but fell short.

You've got to wonder how Fitzgerald got open but it's a great play by them

It's high farce out there ... unbelievable by Rodgers (again) He was just so off-balance yet found the right spot - freakish. Tosssers can't toss the coin.

I'm praying to Mary right now ... hail-mary's

We should just throw 'hail-mary's' all the time.

They are not going to call that ... they haven't called pass interference for most of the game.

We might have at least found out whether there are records or not, ... you're right jara, getting the details of those records might be tricky but couldn't each individual player demand them? ... it's not too late for the records to be uncovered Again, I'm of the belief and always have been that the players have a lot to answer for. You've raised a very good point, all the same. I wonder if it's crossed the mind of anyone in the media? My guess is 'yes' but for various reasons, it didn't happen.

That's a huge play ... average throw by Palmer

Regardless, the tanking stuff is over ... besides all that, there are no real residual effects like what will happen at Essendon. The effects on our club were immediate. The PED stuff has only just begun ... a 7 month investigation for tanking will be nothing compared to the multiple years of angst that the PED use at Essendon will cause. Their supporters will wear this for years - and it's not their fault either (the supporters) That's apart from the damage caused to the sport that goes with it ... it's my guess that many of the 17 players who aren't at Essendon or the other 4 AFL clubs who were busted will end up taking legal action - a class action is on the cards too.

Lacy starts running out of steam early in his runs ... like 5 yards in! Good drive here by the Cardinals

It's fair to say I'm in combative mode Gorgo so you'll have to bear with me for a couple of hours Anyway, a few chinks in the Arizona game so we're a chance ... again, much will depend on whether the Packers WR's & TE's can get open ... if that happens, Green Bay can win.

Not to mention the players ... if they truly are "innocent victims" then they certainly haven't really acted like innocent victims normally would act ... after all, it was the players who received the injections at the anti-aging clinic. No one held a gun at their heads ... 12 on their list at the time weren't charged (yet all we ever seem to hear about is Zaharakis and his supposed fear of needles) The players are also the ones who should be pointing the finger and asking questions ... but all they've seemed to do is say that they've done nothing wrong ... and most have believed them (up until now) The players have also denied not knowing what they were injected with (yet signed off on the supplements that were to be injected with) and ... withheld details of those injections from ASADA. My my there's been a lot of fibs told, dc.

From day one it was quite clear that our media was a combination of the following factors ... lazy, incompetent, negligent and hopelessly compromised. Our media ended up feeding a general public what they wanted to see and hear ... that was the agenda but it was always going to be quite exposed if the players were found guilty and subsequently banned for a decent length of time. Those thinking that this saga is over need to do a re-think.

He's trying to make something happen without any real weapons. Without him, we would have been lucky to win 4 games for the season ... his targets are unable to create separation. And it's been that way since the first game of the year. I watch them every week

Just another aspect of this saga that hasn't been uncovered ... why haven't the players, the AFL, the EFC, our media and various other organisations demanded to see these records from the anti-aging clinic? (even just to find out if the records actually exist)

The Packers will need to do something - pronto. Pats far too accomplished

When an individual athlete has been rubbed out for PED use we generally haven't known or even bothered to find out if that athlete ends up getting paid by whoever pays them. Many of these athletes who have been rubbed out have major sponsors in place and/or endorsement deals but I guess it's taken for granted that they can't compete for prizemoney because they are banned. For these footballers their main source of income is the salary that they receive from the EFC ... regardless, they'll probably find a loophole (if needed) and they'll all end up getting paid. Where it's different are those 17 players who are no longer playing AFL footy ... if any of them are getting paid in the leagues that they might play for then that money may not be as forthcoming. Not sure that the clubs in the minor leagues would be so accommodating (the Lovett-Murray situation being a case in point) So, as a consequence of that, these 17 players may be more likely to take legal action. Also, what about the 5 players at the other AFL clubs? (including our club) ... do those clubs have the same obligation to pay these banned players? As a gesture of goodwill they might do so but it's certainly a different scenario to the Essendon one. Offloading players (as the EFC seemed to do) might come at a price ... there's always a catch.

The Essendon club will certainly want to pay the players in full ... for a variety of reasons. The main 2 reasons being that the club was obviously complicit with regards to the "supplements" injection régime ... so, they are almost duty bound to pay the players in full ... the other main reason is the one that you outlined TF. Also, they'll want the players to return after their bans so paying them becomes imperative for that outcome to come to fruition. However, if they are unable or stopped from paying their players then that's when things could easily turn very ugly. It may well get ugly even if they are all paid in full ... there are so many consequences in the aftermath of this saga. Does anyone know what the actual ruling is (with regards to payment) or is it an arbitrary decision? I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

I didn't know about the tattoo ... if that is true it might seem funny to some, but it pours cold water on the " I fear needles" rot ... but, even armed with that knowledge (if it's true), many would still believe the spin about Zaharakis. I've already stated that I'd happily welcome back Melksham into the fold after he serves his time but here's the list of the 12 players (again) who were not issued with the infraction notices ... they were all on Essendon's list going into their 2012 season (when the injection program was in full swing) There is speculation that these 12 players did not sign the consent forms Currently listed Mark Baguley Courtenay Dempsey Jackson Merrett David Zaharakis Delisted Anthony Long, Lauchlan Dalgleish, Jason Winderlich, Elliott Kavanagh, Nick O'Brien, Michael Ross, Kyle Reimers Hal Hunter

And 12 players look like said NO ... so it's entirely plausable that 34 willingly "went along with things" and 12 decided not to. It's the other 12 players that were on Essendon's list at the time that many have conveniently put aside.

That's if we assume that the players had no idea of what they were injected with ... I've never assumed that and I'm baffled as to why most seem to assume that they didn't know what they were being injected with. I suppose if one is told something hundreds of times one might be inclined to believe that something.

I still think the Pats can win without Gronk but much might now be dependent on the coaching of Belichick ... if the KC d-line can get at Brady enough, they can win. They smashed him at KC 2 seasons back so it's quite achievable. That Seattle/Panthers is the pick of the games in my opinion ... Lynch being back brings the Seahawks right into it ... the Panthers have drawn the short straw of all the top seeds ... 15 & 1 and then out - straight off? As for Kelly/Kap & the 49ers ... he'll probably invigorate them off the bat but they'll need to bring in some weapons to be a threat for the playoffs (especially in that division) Hopefully he now realises that it's not all about game plans in the NFL - any team needs a number of top players to be a genuine threat.