Kento80

See how I say "I would not be surprised", it would be obvious to any right thinking person that I am making an assumption. I am guessing. I am hoping. I have never said otherwise. Nice effort at dodging the issue at hand, but there is only one person throwing mud here mate, and it aint me. You saying "it will have a profound effect on the rest of the players at the club, mark my words" is not making an assumption, but actually saying something as if it is fact, even though you have no real clue. I have, on numerous occasions this arvo, asked you whether you have the indepth knowledge of the TPP for the MFC that they have, and you have predictably dodged that question and tried to discredit me. Unfortunately it is a conversation you cannot win, because I do not claim to "know", but only to have my suspicions. Try again mate, cause it hasn't worked so far. Or as a novel idea, you could try and answer the question of the evening. How do you claim to know that Toms contract offer "will have a profound effect on the rest of the players at the club"?

No I don't, and once again (amazingly) you have missed the point. I never claimed to know, what I am saying is that the club and those involved know what they are doing, and all the inner workings of the salary cap, you do not. Therefore, how can you attempt to say with any authority that it will have a detrimental effect on the players. You can't. That is the issue here. You sprout off like some sort of authority, whilst really you have no more clue what effect it will have than any other of us. It's not that hard to understand mate, at least it shouldn't be, however I understand that it could be a little difficult for some of the population.

Yeah, it would have been extremely difficult. When I say conversations with the leadership group, I am meaning general, not specific. Obviously there would be no mention of monetary values or anything else, but I would not be surprised at all if there was some sort of contact to try and gauge the general feeling amongst the playing group as to the whole situation. They're obviously not going to go and say, s"o Jack, how do you feel about Tom getting paid twice as much as you??" But maybe a sly chat, even just with Green to just get a feel for the general mood about the situation wouldn't surprise me one bit.

I know you can't, and won't, but christ I wish you would Would be great to know what the players really think for once.

Agreed, but as I said in an earlier post, if we are aware of this, you can bet your balls so have the club. It would not surprise me one iota if they had had conversations with the leadership group prior to making any decision about what contract to offer. They definitely would not go off half-cocked making this offer. There is too much professionalism going on there these days. It makes no sense to me that they would do this without taking all possible steps to try and mitigate any damage or destabilising effects.

But that would go against the current trend WM. Sculls is a mercenary and Sylvias a saint.

No I was quoting the above post from RobbieF, as that was what I was talking about, which you commented on. All starting to get a bit confusing!

That's your belief and that is fine. I just can't for the life of me understand how someone who has no inside knowledge of the situation at all can state "it will have a profound effect on the rest of the players at the club, mark my words". There is a level of certainty there that doesn't belong in a sentence from someone who is just guessing.

How dare you call them such horrendous names. They are obviously going for corrupt and one sided!

You're a goose mate. Read my posts before you try getting on your high horse. I have said all over this thread that the club are competent and wouldn't make an offer of this magnitude if they thought that it would jeopardise anything of any importance to them. As you said yourself "I guess it would be at the expense of someone else". Note that I highlighted guess for you, as it shows you have no knowledge of the situation at all. You also ignored my question, I presume because it debases your aspertions. I will repeat it for you, maybe instead of being petty you could actually try and answer it. So you know more about the financial viability of the club, and the state of our TPP than they themselves do you? Why on earth would they offer this amount if they can't afford it, and if it would have detrimental effect to any area of our FD at all? I put it in bold so that you can spot it too.

I know, it is a bitter pill to swallow, and it keeps getting lodged in my throat! I am not too worried about the Reach deal being knocked back, because him getting paid that money by a charity really doesn't sit well with me. It is just the fact that they are going to thwart any deal we can do. I've steam coming out my bl$#dy ears, I'm that mad about all this.

Amen brother!

I almost wish I didn't love the MFC so much, so that I could feasibly abandon the game altogether. This whole mess absolutely drives me insane. It is so obvious that the AFL is meddling in this scenario as much as possible. How they can stand there and say with a straight face that it is ok for Carlscum to have this BS deal for Judd outside the salary cap, but no-one else can do it to protect the integrity of the competition absolutely beggars belief. I am fully aware that if we lose Scully the world will still turn, but that is not my problem. I just cannot stand this corrupt (and make no mistake, it is corrupt) behaviour, and hope that the club is exploring all legal avenues to take on this mongrel commission.

Exactly. I think it will be a case of "this is what we can afford without compromising ourselves, we want you to stay, but if you want more we cannot accommodate you". It will be sad to lose him, but if it comes to that, it is the dawn of the new, harsh reality we will face after the introduction of FA.

I would be a little peeved, I'll make no bones of that. But I think it is naive of us to think that the club wouldn't have thought long and hard about all of this. They aren't just going to go off half-cocked handing out paycheques that rock the boat. I wouldn't even be surprised if they had had conversations with the leadership group to gauge the feeling amongst the playing group. Obviously it would be stupid if it were to destabilise the club, but I am certain they would have done their due diligence to give it the best chance of success. And I also think that it is different to your average workplace, and is growing more and more so by the day. AD and his expansion revolution have made sure that equality levels amongst players are probably going to get worse. It would be a pretty petty player to cry about it when he can see the same going on at clubs all around him. I think they will have a level of understanding that perhaps we do not, due largely to the desire for success.

Yep, fair enough, I may just make that edit

I have stated my point, and you had nothing to add other that "sigh". Not my problem if you can't see resason. I don't have a problem with RobbieF having an opinion, but going as far as calling Tom a mercenary is where I (and others) take affront. All one needs to do is read the meaning of the word in the dictionary, and if they know anything about Tom and his motivations, then they can see that mercenary is just an idiotic word to use in this case. Other than that I have no issue whatsoever with Robbie being all bitter. I prefer to go about my day without Tom and the situation he finds himself in upsetting me. We can cross that bridge when we get to it. So you know more about the financial viability of the club, and the state of our TPP than they themselves do you? Why on earth would they offer this amount if they can't afford it, and if it would have detrimental effect to any area of our FD at all?

Nice demonstration of the level of intelligence involved here.

Yes Scully refused, that is exactly my point. He could have accepted and still gone to GWS next year. As to whether Trengove requested it, fair enough I will give you that. Criticising Trenners was actually not the point here, it was trying to apply the same logic that causes Scully to be so roundly criticised to Trengoves situation. As I said I love Trenners, and in no way do I think that is his motive, just the same as I believe Tom and am willing to give him his right to decide in due course. I was trying (perhaps unsuccessfully) to show how stupid it is to criticise Tom for going about his business as usual in a situation not of his creating. If we are to believe Tom could be so conniving, then what is to say that Trenners isn't equally conniving. Oh, that's right, because he speaks well in the media and someone said he bleeds red n blue. Gimme a break. You do have a "right" to consider him a mercenary (working, or acting, merely for money or other reward), but that "right" doesn't make it any less an insane view. He has not put himself out to market, he has had this thrust upon him. What is so hard to understand about that. Everyone who knows the kid says how much he loves, and lives for, footy so that instantly rules out use of the word mercenary. Hopefully one day you will realise how ridiculous it is to talk about a kid in this way when he has done nothing to deserve it.

Actually, that is the only way to not be true to his words, because he has said all along that he will make his decision at the end of the season. What is so hard to comprehend about all this?

He is not a destabilizing influence, the AFL and GWS are. He is trying to get on with his job, do what many players before and after him do, and sign at the end of the season. This is not his fault, he should be free to deal with it as he said he would before it even became an issue. It's a bit of a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't situation. If he re-signs with the Dees, he's damned for not doing it earlier, being so selfish, taking too much of the pie.......... If he goes he's a traitor, gold digger, lowlife liar who can't be trusted.......... Now let's not forget here that HE is not requesting this large slice of pie. The club value him as a player enough to offer it to him to keep him, and they know much more about his qualities and potential than we do. They also have a much more intimate knowledge of what we can afford, so trust that they are doing their jobs correctly and it will not cause a player retention issue. Jack Trengove (whom I absolutely love) get's painted as a white knight on here, but may I put something to all of you who are railing on Scully. Trenners signed an extension on his initial contract which had a number of effects. First, it put him out of the scope of GWS this year. Second, it increased the money he earned straight up (does this not mean he is after money more than Scully who didn't request this). Third, it means that he is still free to get courted by GWS next year, whilst having taken a larger slice of the pie in his first three years at the MFC, and could quite possibly then leave for the superbucks. Now I am in no way suggesting that this is what would happen, but it goes to show that Tom has got paid less so far, asked for nothing more than anyone else, and is trying to deal with an unsavoury situation in the way that he feels most comfortable with. I'm fed up with this whole situation as much as the next person, but he has done nothing to deserve all this criticism so hows about all the negative nancies take a chill pill and cut the poor (pun intended) kid some slack. P.S. Welcome back Wolfmother, I like hearing from someone who actually knows Tom, other than just pure assumptions.

It's the 2011 MFC Merry-go-round. So much fun for all, but don't jump on with a full stomach or you may be sick

True Striker, but even though "technically" legal, it is incredibly convoluted and really stinks. The only reason I bring this up is because previously I wasn't aware that the clubs were not allowed to arrange such things. Surely the conflict of interest should have ruled Visy out of the equation. Anyhow, the bar has been set, so I don't see that we should have much difficulty finding enough to make up most if not all of the gap. Definitely should help our cause.

Does anyone (including AD et al) actually believe that Carlton had nothing to do with organising Judds "ambasadorship with Visy? Absolute rubbish. And if Scully gets one of these ambassadorships, I would say that I cannot believe the MFC had nothing to do with that either. Such a convoluted rule, but I suppose I will forgive them if it helps us retain Scully

I'm not going to change my views based on Darrens twitter stream, but I know Darren and I don't think for a second that he would say all of that unless he was as certain as he could be that his source was on the money. He is a massive Dees fan, and a positive one at that, and I really can't see him wanting to fan the flames unless he had accepted that it is the case. This is not a good turn of events at all, but I am still gonna "believe in Tom" (sorry rpfc, wasn't trying to steal it)