nutbean

well fact is he has missed a considerable portion of gettable set shots he's had so far, one cost us a match in Freo, so i don't know how you can dispute it

ummm - we lost by 11 points so unless the Watts attempt at goal instead of a point was under super goal rules and then miraculously swung back after going through the goals, bounced off the point post three time to give us the extra three points for a total of 12 points we needed to win the game ( as we lost by 11 points ) I think I will dispute that Watts' miss at goal cost us the game.

Feel free to correct my math.

Exactly. At what point does the AFL have any views at all? If that statement becomes overused, it becomes meaningless. It's similar to the "no offense, but I hate you" routine. Hiding behind a catch-all line such as that can easily become counter-productive.

I sent him an email telling Mr Slattery that he or his editors had failed in their job as the job is to look at all material for publication and challenge facts where there are facts to ensure they are verifiable and challenge opinions where there are opinions to ensure the opinions are not illogical/without reason. I challenged him to let me write an article on why the AFL had failed in their thinking in not capping the availability of uncontracted players by a certain length of service/age.

You can argue 5 years or 7 years or even 4 years service to a club enables uncontracted footballers be targeted (I personally believe 24 is minimum) but you cannot argue that it is defeating the purpose of the draft to have a system where poor onfield performance is recognised by access to the better players ( read better draft picks) only to see these players possibly being poached after 2 seasons ( read Scully/Martin/NicNat.

I also noted that their is enough opinion in main stream media and by being under the AFL banner and selectively choosing what to give an opinion on( albeit with the disclaimer that "my opinion is not my opinion") the AFL is lending itself to complaints of singling out certain clubs for either praise or damnation.

Never stopped the HUN.

Or The Age for that matter.

Couldnt agree more - however the major difference is that these papers are (supposedly) independent and do not operate under the AFL Banner. If there is to be opinion pieces under the AFL Banner then they have to have a duty of care to be "fair and reasonable" to all their clubs that they represent.

Whilst I am not certain I would like to challenge the editor to list me all of the other "opinion" pieces put on AFL.com ( as opposed to puff and fluff pieces). Direct me to the opinion pieces about Nixon, direct me to the opinion pieces about Fevola, direct me to any opinion pieces about hot controversial topics. And when I am directed to these pieces let me see their reasonable logic used. On hot topics they may list facts but to my knowledge never venture opinion/editorial

I would suggest that what we have seen here is the first. It is not shabby factual article, it is a shabby opinion/editorial not based faulty illogical premises.

The original article was a firm opinion on the issue, no debate, no wrongs, a straight one sided opinion.

And to repeat what I said earlier - for an opinion to have credibility it may not necessarily be backed by fact but needs to be backed by logic and reason and the article was devoid of both. A fair reasonable person should be able to look at a differing opinion and say " I don't necessarily agree but I can understand the basis for your opinion". ( to this end I respect that opinion that TS may sign with GWS for the lure of bigger money but in absense of facts confirming that he has already done so (statements exist to the contrary) and in defiance of logic and reason as to why he would do so now, I cant respect the opinion that he has signed already )

It is the editors role to ensure articles published have facts that are verifiable or failing that have opinions that can be backed by reason and logic" FAIL

Lets not forget that we had to TRADE for White, giving up pick 2 and 20 (or something like that). This can happen to any club at any time and we paid a fair price to get him. We will be unlikely to get that kind of return for a fresh faced number 1 pick.

Laughable that the editor had to come out justify why such an article was written. Justifying its intent is one thing, but failing to address the numerous flaws it contained does him no favours.

Still misses the point - Jeff White was not about what picks we gave or how much he was paid. Fact one - he wanted to come home. Everything else is after the fact.

There is an interesting read on opinion journalism and as some posters have said that maybe opinion journalism has place on the AFL site.

http://rhetorica.net/archives/7666.html

To me these quotes are pivotal and why the article submitted by Phelan was garbage and why the editors of AFL.com have failed by allowing garbage to be printed.

"Like reporters, opinion journalists should operate as custodians of fact with a discipline of verification. " - Phelan FAIL

"opinion should be about changing hearts and minds with knowledge and wisdom" Phelan FAIL

I especially liked these quotes

Was rather surprised today to find that the AFL website went to the trouble of responding to my comment on their Facebook page, by devoting an entire article (this article), to it.

I can't find the response on the facebook page as I would like to make comment. The original article and the response prompts the questions

- If indeed there are these sorts of opinion pieces on the AFL website ( please point me to them) then I would ask if there is an editorial staff in place that could allow this piece to be printed - or at least competent editorial staff.

A publication may publish opinion pieces (I for one dont think that AFL.com needs to run opinion pieces - there are enough media outlets already doing so) but the Editor needs to ensure that the opinion ( in fact any article) can at least stand up to logical and rigorous scrutiny.

I respect anyones right to a differing opinion - but if an opinion cannot be backed with some logic or reason then stand by for disrespect.

The article is so flawed in so many ways the editor should have told his journalist - go back and have another go.

As an example - if anyone wants to argue that it is difficult to set an age or years of service cut off for poaching uncontracted players then there is merit in this opinion. I respect the opinion of old55 in regards to Marc Murphy - should Carlton feel any less aggrieved at the attempt to lure Murphy as we should with Scully ? The difficulty is setting the line.

But to suggest that there is no difference between signing a 2nd year player ( to be poached for the 3rd year) and a 9 year player ( poached to play in his 10th season) that has played in 2 premierships, 3 grand finals and won a brownlow is an opinion that should be subject to ridicule. Gary Ablett has stated ( whether you want to believe it or not) that a large part of his reason is that he has achieved so much at Geelong and this is a chance to help a start up club. Can a 2nd year footballer make this statement ?

The same could be expressed for Jeff White comparisons - forget money, forget draft picks, forget compensation - it is stated and documented that he wanted to come home. ( refer articles to him "Crying to his mother on the phone").

To repeat - feel free to give opinions - but be prepared for backlash if those opinions have no substance or logic behind them. For an AFL site to publish opinion pieces in my opinion is unnecessary ( and this can be debated) but to allow opinion pieces to be published under the AFL Banner that are devoid of logic is just plain wrong.

No one can make this girl accept any help if she des not want it. Which appears to be the case. Are you suggesting the men in white coats be brought in to lock her up for her own protection?

As a minor the law can make a person accept help whether she wants it or not. ( not sure legally though if a minor is under 16 or under 18 )

I just wish the help she had received wasn't from humanitarians like Ricky Nixon and Sam Gilbert ( and apparently others )

Can't keep a good thread down

GWS standing for Greater Western Soreknee

GWS = Giants welcome Scully ( my bad)

I expect a top eight finish. If not then goodbye Bailey. But there is a chance to push further and make the top four. A early good run with injuries and stringing consecutive games will put us in position to have a crack at top 4. And one or two fancied sides delivering sub par expectations will help.

Gotta love such bold pronouncements !

I don't lower my expectations but you have to put things into prespective. First and foremost - the big disclaimer in my expectation is injuries.

Given a fair run with injuries I can see us pushing for the eight. Its all about keeping your best players on the paddock ( and the umpires not wearing the same coloured jumpers as us.) I will judge Bailey on the amount of games we produce form of the ilk of the Brisbane game last year and the two Collingwood games ( and that form brought us a win, a loss and a draw !)

You might be right and I certainly don't know but my gut feel is this - I have seen enough of these teenagers who think they own the world, are savvy with technology, who don't think through the ramifications of their actions or who couldn't give a flying fig about the rest of the world. It's all about them. Think Lindsay Lohan, think Paris Hilton, think Brittany.

It's all about celebrity. They don't care how you get your 15mins or what you do to get it so long as you get it.

It's clear her parents have 'disowned her' so that maybe tells you something about her past behaviours and lack of respect etc.

The fact she stated she was out to get revenge and has done it magnificently shows you her intelligence. And just because some of us adults think it is sad, deranged, distasteful etc it's still only possible because of the breathtaking stupidity of some of the adults in this saga.

Thinking Lindsay, Paris and Brittany - two major differences. Firstly these three had one extra element in the mix and from what I can gather they are missing one element that this girl has. The Hollywood three have unlimited money with no boundaries which is a lethal ingredient into a life of "excess". And the missing ingredient is the Hollywood three seemed to self destruct without too much help from others. This girl has had a helping hand from some footballers and a manager ?

So anyway, not that this is even one of the important issues, but the way to sort out who is lying (the most)...

Simply: Nixon claims the girl has a video of him in his underwear, which she stole from his phone while left in his office for 20 mins months ago, whilst he was talking to police.

If this is true, he will have the video on his phone.

If he is not in possession of the video himself, then he is lying.

If he does have the video, it proves she was lying, because she'd have had to film it on her own phone or camera, so he wouldn't have access to it.

my brain hurts

I'm not sure what Brisbane has done wrong.

I certainly think that Fevola has problems - the arguments will continue endlessly as to whether he is unable to control his behaviour due to depressionor other mental illness or we want to go with "he should just take responsibility for his own actions" argument.

Either way, the club has a responsibility to not only Fevola but the other players on the list and having this sort of behavioural problems within a GROUP is unacceptable.

The Lions have not said you are fired and on your own sport - they have said they will continue to support his recovery and rehabilitation but he cant play for the team anymore.

He may well recover and be productive and not cause disruption but they have a whole group of other players to think of.

For this reason I did not like the idea of us recruiting Cousins or a Carey or other troubled souls. Do they deserve a second chance ? Do they deserve help getting back on their feet ? Sure. Do I want their second chance to be a risk to another 40 odd footballers. Nope.

It is not a god given right to play AFL and when you have damaged the club as he has for whatever reason, certainly you may have a responsibility to help him get back on his feet but not to the possible detriment of 40 other players on the list.

I agree. Hence my post earlier that its almost irrelevant re the girls actions etc. Her motives, methods and justifications are almost an issue in itself...but for her.

Ricky Nixon is a grown man who ought to be able to discharge far better judgement than he's shown. We all make mistakes but this is within cooee of being amoral if not downright so..

Hes probably dead lucky someone hasnt shown him the error of his ways!!

I'm not a man of violence - but spot on !

(cowards run in my family)

Yeah good point, I can certainly see where you are coming home. Like I said, its not that I don't feel sorry for her, I truly do think her situation is horrific (from what we have heard- true or false) I just can't fathom the fact that her blackmailing people with photos and ruining peoples lives is going rewarded. Again, I do understand her live may be considered ruined too but for Nick Riewoldt who arguably did absolutely nothing to her that performance is deplorable whether hurt by certain players or people or not.

Glad we agree on something though

cheers to you ! Taking out the innocents like Nick Reiwoldt is all part of the reason why I have constantly stated "she know not what she doth". She is lacking in reason, she is lacking in sensitivity, she is not discerning and she lacks discretion, she will take out the innocent and the guilty alike without any thought. She is a child and not in control despite what we way may think. She is making decisions that she thinks are in her best interest but with the benefit of experience and some hindsight down the track, she will (may ?) realise that she is not only hurting others but herself.

Exactly right... from 16 on, many kids tend to think they are bullet-proof, but that is a case of belief and reality being two very different things. This girl may well be very smart and will probably do quite well for herself out of this by selling her story etc etc... but the sad thing is that she doesn't seem to realise the long term impact that this is going to have on not only the people she has targeted, but also on her own life.

well said and my point exactly (and why I fear the outcome)

You may wish to expand from your vague generalisation.

I may not be alone in not having the foggiest what youre attempting to convey.

Am interested

I guess what I am really saying ( and generalising about) is whilst I don't think that wisdom is confined to a certain age group, the younger crop seem to be more black and white and dare I say harsh ? unforgiving ? in their outlook and attitudes.

I can almost pick the older posters on this forum by their ability to see the shades of grey in most arguments. Usually more circumspect and not quite as quick on the trigger.

So endth my generalisations - bring it on !

It's almost irrelevant as to girls motives or guile etc . It's about Nixon. It's about his decisions and actions. By own admission he fail appropriate judgement. The Law will adjudicate whether he crossed any lines.

It's from a professional conduct view that his future will be decided.

Irrespective of the outcome, would you want this guy making decisions affecting your future ? Probably not !!! Lol

Please delete the word "probably"

It's almost irrelevant as to girls motives or guile etc . It's about Nixon. It's about his decisions and actions. By own admission he fail appropriate judgement. The Law will adjudicate whether he crossed any lines.

It's from a professional conduct view that his future will be decided.

Irrespective of the outcome, would you want this guy making decisions affecting your future ? Probably not !!! Lol

Being a long time follower but a recent poster ( I reckon that 95% of my posts are on the Scully issue - sad I know) - I think it should be mandatory to put your age into your profile.

I am going to run with a big generalisation here but you can almost pick the age by the response.

However, she knows what she is doing

Because all kids this age know what they are doing ?

This is where we differ. She is out of her league, out of her depth and out of control.

I would say your 'deserving people' wouldn't have 'grave fears' surround them.

This is a girl, who at the age of 15/16 lost her way and got zero help from those around her who thought of their own public-perception rather than helping someone through a myriad of personal disasters that no girl/woman should go through alone.

nah - hairy backed slapper who deserves what she gets - after all - at 15/16 you have worldly experience and know exactly what you are doing. How can we feel any sympathy for this girl who has manipulated and used these holy than thou footballers and managers for her own publicity seeking ends. She is a master manipulator who lead poor naive Ricky Nixon and these footballers to their doom. If only Ricky had had some exposure to the media previously none of this would have happened.***

***caution - this post may contain nuts and sarcasm

To repeat what RPFC has said "ugh"

You believe?

Well that's comforting.

The reality is that no matter what has actually come to pass between GWS and Scully, Scully now finds himself in the position where he needs to make a decision on his future. He needs to either sign with the MFC NOW to avoid the type of rot that set into Geelong with Ablett, or admit to having signed with GWS already.

If he does anything other than sign with MFC immediately, we should deem him a transient and treat him as such. Prepare the side that will be together for the future.

We all spent two seasons watching the Dees and hoping they wouldn't win too many matches because we were so worried about the draft picks. I don't plan to spend this year watching Scully develop into a gun player with the sickening feeling that he'll probably leave at the end of the year. And 'believe' me, if he makes no statement, he's gone.

I hate Sheedy. Send him a kid who hasn't played top level footy for a year.

Because thats what all mature, professional clubs - deliver ultimatums to players they want to keep, when what their management has asked for is not unreasonable.

Well you better get out there and help her. Do something positive. I save my grave fears for more deserving people.

Wow....I'm tipping you are under 30 and dont have children.

The girl and the manager are chislers and scammers. They will keep rolling the dice till their luck runs out. These types all learn their tricks young and this girl is a lot more street smart than all of us put together and will easily twist blokes around her finger if she can get something from them. Even her parents are totally lost with her and disowned her by all reports. She's going to love all the help she gets because its going to be her meal ticket for a while. Can't wait to see what she gets up to in a few years time. As for him, he's now gonna play the I need help card too. But there will be a lot less sympathy for him because he's not as pretty.

Nope, I feel dirty after reading this. Whilst some may shout "pyscho-babble" - look up the word sociopath ( or prior to 18 years old - conduct disorder.) Irrespective of labels - she has some severe issues which have been exacerbated by her treatment.

I would love to see what she gets up to in two years time because I have grave fears for her making it through the next two years.

obviously if tom really wanted to sign he would, but if my manager said to me just dont sign yet and we will see what melbournes best offer is i know what my response would be.

especially that tom is only coming into his second year. if he has a ripper of a year his price is only going to increase, hence the reason why we moved our older players on earlier than normal and why we were back ending contracts. exactly for this sort of scenario so that we could keep on to our up and coming stars.

There you go - we are in violent agreement. Sorry to take you to task - but what you posted here makes 100% sense ( except I think we are now front ending contracts to give us room when our youngsters hit their peak and are worth more money - I think I got that right) - this post is a wee bit different to what you originally posted.

Tom heeding management advice ? absolutely !