binman

May's got form with rubbish like that. Did on another occasion yesterday- I think aimed at tomo. On his kicking, I wish they made it a team rule that he can only kick it 60 metres plus. He misses a ridiculous number of 15 to 40 metre kicks under no pressure. Like that kick to Bowser.

At least it wasn't Bailey Fridge - son of Ted Fridge and nephew of John Fridge.

100% agree. Hill, Mcreery, Ginnivan and Elliott were absolutely key for the Pies in the finals. All were fantastic and big factors in the flag. Interestingly all bar Ginnvan are more medium forwards size wise, but apply huge pressure. Koz is small, but his pressure is elite. Chandler is small, but his pressure in the finals was average i thought. Spargs is also small, but never really got back to his best, was inexplicably (IMO) not selected for the Pies game and pressure was average on the blues finals loss. That puts a lot of pressure on the medium forwards to apply pressure, particularly when you have a lumbering Tmac. Smith held up his end of the bargain pressure wise in the blues loss, but i don't think Fritter was fully fit and his pressure was average. Losing Melk really hurt in this regard, and his loss was compounded by JVR missing the blues game as in addition to missing his marking and goals we really missed the sort of pressure and tackling inside 50 we saw glimpses from him yesterday. Based on yesterday's game i think Brown is a red hot chance of being in the team in round one and playing that small forward and/or high half forward pressure role. I think the Colt might still be a ways off, but he's chance to come in to the side for the same role at some point, as is perhaps Sestan (jury out though). That would certainly make life difficult for Chandler in terms of keeping his spot in the ones. If McCadam comes in he will to need to apply the sort of defensive pressure melk applied last season.

100% agree. Which is why Windsor is on a glide path for round one selection. Though i hope his kicking is better than what we saw yesterday.

It's even more a pity that last season our bottom 3 for average kick to score ratio with kicks inside 50 were our three best players (Maxy, Tracc and Oliver), two of whom are our two best mids, most prolific ball winners, and most prolific inside 50 kicks. By the by, number one for that same stat? Nibbla. #nibblamyths

Spot on. I'd add that whilst there might be some variation as to where that kick is directed (eg pockets or hot spot), long and high kicks inside 50 is standard practice for all teams when kicking into a crowded forward line (which is not say team do it all the time of course). And the reason why is when kicking into a crowded forward line, a long, high kick to a pack at predetermined spot, is the percentage play. It's the risk reward calculation. Teams would have 20 plus years of analytics, and whilst i cant back this is up with the data (because frustratingly the AFL allow champion data to lock up key data), I'm very confident the data would show, that when factoring in: the attacking teams chances of scoring if they mark it or win the next possession (ie either when the ball hits the ground OR after a stoppage, if one happens) and the defensive teams chances of scoring if they mark it or win the next possession (ie on turnover).... .........the net scoring advantage is in favor of the attacking team. That data would change when the forward line is not crowded and the percentage play would be hitting up leading targets (unless as you note HBD, if that kick is under huge pressure, then the percentage play might still be the long high kick) But the problem is space inside 50 can only be created through fast ball movement from the back half (hence practicing the handball chains). But even then it is a one time deal. If a team moves it quickly, as we did yesterday at times, get it inside 50 to an open forward line, but fail to score and the oppo win the ball back, the go to play is put pressure on the outlet kick, set up a wall and try to win the ball back. If we do win it back, in that scenario, the defensive zone usually has had time to get set and players from both teams have flooded into the forward line area. So the kick back inside 50 is into a crowded forward line. And the percentage play is a long, high kick to our forward line. I think it was our second goal (perhaps the brown's first?) that we scored a goal from exactly this scenario.

Indeed. Avoiding injury is another objective. The foundation of our game plan, like every other club, is pressure. Pressure creates turnovers. As one of the commentators said, 70% of scoring now comes from turnovers. But pressure also causes injuries. We only applied something even close to AFL pressure in the first 20 mins of each half. And even then it was miles off what we see round one. The tigers weren't applying much pressure in those phases We dominated in those periods. Kicking five unanswered goals to start the game. When the tigers lifted their pressure ratings, they dominated, kicking 10 straight at one point. Until the last couple of years practice games were not broadcast. And rightly people paid little heed to them. Yes, with only one proper preseason game the practice match is a bit more significant - but it remains a PRACTICE match. In addition to getting players conditioned to something like AFL intensity, it's an opportunity to practice things, eg new roles, strategies and ball movement Examples yesterday included Windsor on a wing, Howes at half back, Schache rucking, Verrel rucking solo for a half, more time in the middle for koz, ditto for nibbla, salo on ball, inside 50 kicks, leading patterns and our long handball chains. On the latter, i had a memory of old dees fans at the g back in the mid 2000s yelling "JUST KICK IT!!!!!' when we were employing the then standard, yet sometimes frustrating, strategy of moving the ball forward with chains of handballs. If we start using chains of handballs again, the equivalent fans might have to yell "JUST KICK IT - BUT DON'T BOMB IT IN - HIT A LEADING TARGET - SO DON'T JUST KICK IT INDISCRIMINATELY !!!!!"

Bit tough on Brayshaw.

Some take aways: I suspect they are in a heavy training phase. Cooked after the first 20 min untill half time. First 15 mins of third up and about after a break. Then cooked again Being cooked exacerbated our biggest issue - our kicking skills accross the board. Outside of the first 20 mins of the game, even our best kicks turned it over, and our average kicks, of which there are many, were horrendous Very much the classic practice match. One example was the focus on practising hand ball chains to move the ball downfield In the last couple of years our practice match has been our main preseason hitout, not the community cup. I suspect not this year - Max won't be coming off at half time against the blues. Verell looked ok. Koz is a star. Viney was terrific. JVR will go up one or two levels. Good to see them give schachw a run in the ruck. Makes perfect sense, and i think is the only way he cements a starting 22 position. Assuming he can improve. I know clarry was playing against VFL players, but somehow it made his brilliance even more evident. Sounds stupid, but I think I had forgotten just how good he is. Not bothered at all by the result.

I'm of the same mind. Needs to get involved more. Make or break year for him I reckon.

Amusing is one word to describe them.

No, it's called My pal. Also features one of the great lines in all of rock - you're my only friend, and you don't even like me. You might be thinking of this song, by another young Australian rock band, albeit much more recent and all young women:

What is up with your triggering nonsense? You think posters claiming we choked, will slide, are poorly coached, have a boring game plan, have missed our window, im being a realist, just telling it like it is, yada yada, yada is triggering? How long have you been posting on Demonland? That's been the majority view on this site ever since I started posting way back in 2011. We lose round one, and I'm sure the is Goodwin the right coach thread will come roaring back (spoiler alert for 90% of people posting the answer was, and will be, no) Anyone who posts on Demonland has well and truly had their triggering innoculations against that sort of palaver. In fact, in my experience, it is the contrary view - ie we wont slide, we'll likely make top 4, the reality is we won a flag teo seasons ago and finished top 4 in the last 3 seasons, we have a brutally effective game plan other teams have coped, accuracy cost us, etc etc- that actually triggers people. There's a psychological concept called projection. Might be worth looking into.

Spot on. Nothing wrong with some social media fodder. But its ridiculous if that's all there is. And its not as if anything is going to go viral, and even if it did it is not like it would bring any new fans to the team or sell any more memberships. Football clubs are not like a product that could suddenly become popular on the back of some tik tok trend like lyft nicotine pouches. Comms need mutiple strategies in markets where you are trying to reach diverse demographics, interest levels and age ranges. I'm not on social media, so the contest designed for it is of no value for me. And even if I was it wouldn't hold my interest. So much could be done for basically nothing. As you say, interviews are not only a no brainer, surely they are the bare minimum fans can expect. And it needn't be just players- line coaches, data analysts, fitness team could all provide an interesting insight. I can't recall there being so few interviews in a preseason in the internet era. What's going on? Check freo's website. They have at 20 plus interviews up. Yes, they have an advantage Yes, they have an advantage of being in a two team town, and most interviews are small port training pressers with local media. But still.

Really? I had well and truly forgotten that. But i do remember it included non musical samples, which was very rare in 1968. Maybe Eno was doing it? But few others, not even the Beatles. Well ahead of its time - such sampling has become a staple of electronic and dance music (i'm a sucker for such samples, partic spoken works ones). It's strange Molly didn't produce more records.

Johnny Young of Young talent time? I had forgotten that.

The real thing def has a case. Cracking song, that stills stand up. Produced by Molly Meldrum.

Nup. Though the song was released somewhere around my birthday, so i'm no spring chicken. In addition to all the great sixties and seventies rock, this is was what i listening to in my misspent youth (by the by this is the greatest Australian rock song IMHO - crazy to think they were 16 when this was released in 1988):

All fair points. I agree he could improve his marking. I'm sure he will as he is so obviously driven. I have only been to one training session this year but I could not have been more impressed with his marking, particularly in one on one drills with key defenders. He out muscled and out marked May right in front of me and i loudy sledged May with the old too big, too strong call - much to Maysie's displeasure, who (correctly) pointed out the ball was kicked to JVRs advantage. In terms of tricks in the bag, I'd reiterate two points i made earlier that I think are areas he has real edge in. For a young KPF in his first full season at AFL level, he did a hell of a lot of rucking. I watched him at Casey at the beginning of his first season and his ruck skills were average. By the end of that season they were pretty good. But last season I thought they were excellent - particularly his tap work. Great he has the skills, even better that he obviously dud the work to develop them. None of the other young key forwards did anywhere near as much rucking as he did, some not at all, other than occasional forward 50 throw ins. And whilst i concede this may well be confirmation bias, my recollection is all the young KPFs mentioned, with the possible exception of Logan McDonald are decidely average in the ruck - particularly both King brothers. JVR will only improve his ruck skills as he gets stronger and bigger (he has another 3-4 years of incremental growth) and as he keeps honing his craft. That is a big string to his bow - and point of difference - particularly in a period where every team is playing a ruck and forward/ruck. Personally I'd like to see him ruck less this season (so he doesn't get smashed and worn out so much - that might be a factor in his marks per game average). But in two to three years time he could become a real weapon in the duel role. If your KPF is as rubbish at rucking as the King brothers, teams are forced to bring in a player like Lobb. So having a key forward who can ruck to a high level is a big advantage. Particularly if your main, or second ruck gets injured. Also, when JVR is fully filled out he will be a beast and be a weapon at inside 50 ruck contests the way Hawkins has been for the last few years. The other point of difference is his tackling numbers. With tackles inside 50 being so important now, having a KPF tackling twice as often as his peers is a big tick. This particular conversation started with a comment by me that not all is doom and gloom in terms of our supposed forward line woes as in addition to Fritter, JVR (who surely we can agree, if not the best, is ONE of of the best young forwards) will go up a couple of levels. Which, for me points to another curious element in the logic of some who think we will slide because other teams will improve. Why curious? Because the implication is we won't. Yes we have key players like maxy and maysie in the back end of their career. But EVERY team does. But that is more than balanced out by the likely natural progression and improvement of established best 22 players like JVR, Koz, Sparrow, Rivers, Chandler, McVee and Bowser. And under Goody, every seaon a young player has come into the side and established themselves as a best 22 player and improved the side - some like Bowser and mcvee from left field. Any one of Woey, Howes, Laurie, Turner, Adams, Sestan or Monez-Wakefield could be such a player And of course, so could one of the first year players like the colt or Windsor.

That's goals per game I assume.

Two other stats that that jump out are disposal efficiency and tackles. JVR averages twice as many tackels as Ugle Hagen, McDonald and Amiss - again not surprising given his competiveness and how ferocious his attack's on the ball and man is. And his disposal efficiency is significantly better than that of Ugle Hagen, McDonald and Amiss - particularly UE, who in his career goes at a woeful 56.3% to JVR's impressive 78.2%. Good kicking is good football.

I noted that the fact JVR has been in the AFL system for a year less than Ugle Hagen reinforces my confidence in JVR going to another level this season. Van Ruin has HUGE upside (not to say UE doesn't). So, out of interest i compared JVRs 2023 season (his second in the AFL system) with Ugle Hagens 2022 season, which was also his second in the AFL system. That gives the fairest possible comparison i think. The same number of years in the system, comparing both at the same age, almost identical roles (bar the ruck work JVR did), and a full season's average stats. JVR shades Ugle Hagen in the majority of categories. By the by, one stats jumps out in all four comparisons i've posted - JVR smashes, Ugle Hagen, McDonald and Amiss for one percenters. Which doesn't surprise me becuase one of thing i most love about JVR is how competitive he is. As he gets bigger and stronger that will give him a big competitive advantage. Ugle Hagen on the other hand has faced some criticism for not being hard at it. Player Statistics Comparison Jacob Van Rooyen Name Jamarra Ugle-Hagan Melbourne Demons Team Western Bulldogs Forward Position Forward 20 Career Games 45 Claremont Origin Oakleigh Chargers April 16, 2003 Date of Birth April 4, 2002 20yr 9mth Age Turned 20 in 2022 193cm Height 197cm 96kg Weight 91kg 2021 National Draft Last Drafted In 2020 National Draft Round 1, Pick #19 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #1 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Western Bulldogs Career Stats for Season 2022 20 Games 17 4.5 Kicks 5.9 4.2 Handballs 2.0 8.7 Disposals 7.9 3.1 Marks 3.5 1.4 Goals 1.1 0.5 Behinds 0.9 2.1 Tackles 1.1 3.7 Hitouts 0.2 1.2 Inside 50s 1.9 0.3 Goal Assists 0.1 0.9 Frees For 0.6 0.8 Frees Against 0.3 4.3 Contested Possessions 3.6 4.8 Uncontested Possessions 4.5 6.8 Effective Disposals 4.7 78.2% Disposal Efficiency % 59.5% 1.6 Clangers 1.9 0.9 Contested Marks 1.0 1.5 Marks Inside 50 1.8 0.3 Clearances 0 0 Rebound 50s 0 2.1 One Percenters 0.9 0 Bounces 0.1 74.0 Time On Ground % 72.9 0.1 Centre Clearances 0 0.2 Stoppage Clearances 0 4.0 Score Involvements 3.5 113.0 Metres Gained 183.8 1.5 Turnovers 2.2 0.5 Intercepts 0.5 1.1 Tackles Inside 50 0.3

Fair call. I wasn't blaming him for the loss as such, but i could see how it might be perceived that way. I should have said him missing might have been a factor in the loss. Or some such. What i was trying to say is that (unlike Petty, Gus and Melk who were all injured) JVR mised the Blues game because of a lack of discipline. He doesn't deserve to be blamed for the loss, and i don't, but criticism is reasonable as its hard to argue our chances of winning the blues game would not have increased if he had. It was a stupid and unnecessary act that in the home and away season wouldn't mean much as he only copped a week. But it had huge ramifications given that one week ban cost him a place in a cut throat final and we were already struggling to field KPFs. He might be young, but he is a professional athlete and shouldn't be immune from reasonable criticism. I'd be be pretty confident it came up in his exit review.

ayer Statistics Comparison Jacob Van Rooyen Name Jye Amiss Melbourne Demons Team Fremantle Dockers Forward Position Forward 20 Career Games 25 Claremont Origin East Perth April 16, 2003 Date of Birth July 31, 2003 20yr 9mth Age 20yr 6mth 193cm Height 196cm 96kg Weight 86kg 2021 National Draft Last Drafted In 2021 National Draft Round 1, Pick #19 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #8 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Fremantle Dockers Career Stats for Season Career 20 Games 25 4.5 Kicks 5.3 4.2 Handballs 2.5 8.7 Disposals 7.8 3.1 Marks 3.7 1.4 Goals 1.8 0.5 Behinds 0.7 2.1 Tackles 1.3 3.7 Hitouts 0 1.2 Inside 50s 1.0 0.3 Goal Assists 0.4 0.9 Frees For 0.7 0.8 Frees Against 0.4 4.3 Contested Possessions 3.8 4.8 Uncontested Possessions 4.2 6.8 Effective Disposals 5.5 78.2% Disposal Efficiency % 70.5% 1.6 Clangers 1.2 0.9 Contested Marks 1.4 1.5 Marks Inside 50 1.9 0.3 Clearances 0 0 Rebound 50s 0 2.1 One Percenters 0.6 0 Bounces 0.2 74.0 Time On Ground % 78.5 0.1 Centre Clearances 0 0.2 Stoppage Clearances 0 4.0 Score Involvements 4.5 113.0 Metres Gained 139.6 1.5 Turnovers 1.4 0.5 Intercepts 0.3 1.1 Tackles Inside 50 0.7

Player Statistics Comparison Jacob Van Rooyen Name Logan McDonald Melbourne Demons Team Sydney Swans Forward Position Forward 20 Career Games 44 Claremont Origin Perth Fc April 16, 2003 Date of Birth April 4, 2002 20yr 9mth Age 21yr 10mth 193cm Height 195cm 96kg Weight 95kg 2021 National Draft Last Drafted In 2020 National Draft Round 1, Pick #19 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #4 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Sydney Swans Career Stats for Season Career 20 Games 44 4.5 Kicks 6.0 4.2 Handballs 3.0 8.7 Disposals 9.0 3.1 Marks 4.0 1.4 Goals 1.3 0.5 Behinds 0.8 2.1 Tackles 1.4 3.7 Hitouts 0.1 1.2 Inside 50s 1.5 0.3 Goal Assists 0.6 0.9 Frees For 0.7 0.8 Frees Against 0.4 4.3 Contested Possessions 3.9 4.8 Uncontested Possessions 5.2 6.8 Effective Disposals 6.4 78.2% Disposal Efficiency % 71.1% 1.6 Clangers 1.3 0.9 Contested Marks 0.7 1.5 Marks Inside 50 1.4 0.3 Clearances 0.1 0 Rebound 50s 0.1 2.1 One Percenters 1.2 0 Bounces 0 74.0 Time On Ground % 74.1 0.1 Centre Clearances 0 0.2 Stoppage Clearances 0.1 4.0 Score Involvements 4.4 113.0 Metres Gained 133.3 1.5 Turnovers 1.6 0.5 Intercepts 0.7 1.1 Tackles Inside 50 0.7