binman

Ironically long post STMJ given your long winded quip about my quoted post. Leaving that aside, to clarify you have got the wrong end of the stick. Completely. Our difference of opinion has nothing to do with an emotional standpoint. It has everything to do with a fundamental disagreement about your assessment of Oscar's ability. Yes i dislike it when footy fans are over the top in their criticism of players in the team they support. I have an equal dislike of opinions and arguments that are illogical and not supported by the available evidence or fact. I have no issue with you STMJ on personal level and am certainly not personally offended by your 'commentary' on Oscar. Since your commentary on Oscar began all i have ever done is rebut your arguments. And i think largely successfully so. It seems to me you often state your opinions about Oscar as fact, - or at the least confuse opinion and fact, something that is all too common these days i'm afraid. There are any number of examples - your posts about Oscar are littered with them. But as an example from your post quoted above: 'His improvement and growth this year has been enormous simply because of the low base he was coming from' It is your opinion that he is coming of a low base. It is not a fact. And i disagree he is coming off a low base. My opinion is he had a really solid year last, his ability was evident and i expected him to go up a level in 2018. You are surprised he is playing so well this year and i'm not. So i'm happy to accept that your opinion is that he was coming from a low base. But i reserve the right to debate that opinion. With debates my preference is that facts are used to support arguments. And there is ample objective evidence that your opinions of Oscar's ability and level last year is off the mark. One such piece of evidence is the fact that, much to your frustration, at the end of 2016 they elected not to target a mature KPD to mitigate against the risk of Oscar not being good enough. Again at the end of 2017 they chose not to chase a mature KPD - despite planning to play his brother up forward in 2018. These, critical, recruiting decisions were made by a club with full time professionals in the recruiting and football departments. In 2017 they would have been hoping to make finals. In 2018 they would have realistically been targeting a top 4 spot. In that context making the correct call on the KPD position is super important and not one they are likely to take a risk with, for example not recruiting a solid back up player if they were not 100% confident they had a laity player who could do the job. Given all this it is logical to assume the club decided Oscar was good enough to be a KPD capable of performing at the required level and in 2018 be their key big defender (allowing them to implement their critical strategy of moving Tmac forward). And that there was no little risk of him not excelling. Hence not recruiting a mature KPD as you would have had them do. Another fact is that generally a young players development is relatively linear. Though a huge improvement can happen in one pre season it is unusual and even in that scenario the talent is usually evident (or else why would they have been recruited in the fist instance). And in such a scenario it would be very unusual for a young player to have been played most of the previous season in the seniors (history suggests players who are not ready do not play regular senior footy - particularly in teams pushing for finals). More common is that a player builds year on year as they gain experience, fitness, strength etc and improve in increments. I would argue that the latter scenario reflects Oscar's progression and you obviously would not. But the fact remains the latter scenario is more likely to reflect Oscar's development, simply because it is the usual way young AFL players progress. So your opinion is he came off a low base. Mine is that he didn't. I concede i could be wrong. And you could be right. But the facts support my opinion not yours so logic suggest i am more likely to be correct than you are. I'm happy for you not to respond to this post STMJ, in fact i didn't ask you to respond the previous one and if i recall correctly about the the only time i have ever done so was to follow up your promise last year of going through a particular game of Oscar's involvement that was supposed to offer proof of how poorly he played. Something you never did. By the by if you want to follow through on that commitment AFL stats pro has video of the entire 2017 season. And i have no intention to PM you. Why would i? I'm not unhappy, insulted or interested in engaging in a private conversation. You post opinions on a public football forum and if i feel like responding i do so. Simples. And i will continue to do so. And in doing so i will continue to use fact as the basis of my arguments rebutting yours.

Interesting stats. Not surprised about wagner. Bit surprised Oscar covers so much ground (more than rance). I guess he tracks the key forwards who all now have to be great athletes (eg brown tops the roos list - daw has their fastest sprint by the by) Given he basically never gets a spell on the bench and his position is so physically taxing he must be a fit young bugger.

Indeed. The other irony is demonlanders deriding the intelligence of the supporters of other teams, like those of the 'filth' when dl provides ample evidence the dees have their fair share of supporters with cognitive challenges.

Watched it last night and when it finished it went straight into the video of all the Casey goals. Gold.

Why? Because it is good manners to apologise if you have caused offence, even it was done so inadvertently. The world (and DL for that matter) would be a damn sight better place of there was more such respectful interactions.

Good get. My spell check does not work on the phone. Ironically that would not have been picked up anyway. Mist footballers are those like Robbie Muir who see red mist when the cross the white line. Spot on about players bringing it down and creating stoppages. You only really want the ball to be loose and moving forward inside your forward half or if it clearly releases a player into uncontested space.

Agree it needs to be done more and goody is clearly coaching the team to, in the absence of the chance of a clean disposal, keep it going forward in our forward half by any means necessary - punch, tap, jamming it onto the boot (right or wrong foot) etc. However for many players the sort of tap trac did - and the even better one melk did in the previous game where he deflected it to allow a player to run into an open goal - is not instinctive for most footballers who have been trained to grab the ball. Whereas basketballers do it much more instinctively, which is why players like Watts and pendles do so many deft taps etc.

Yes i know. Just some mild trolling on my part. I was being ironic because every year this issue comes I did think about putting a smiling PJ emoji next to my comment.

It will be so humid and steamy and therefore super slippery come game time. Like playing in hot rain

And one made possible by by how effective Oscar is as the lock down big down back.

I actually think the 50 worked in our favour as it triggered a scuflle. And we came out at the start of tbe 2nd Q fired up.

Apologies. As a newbie to the picking the place getters i forgot i had to pick two. Next time i'' get it right. By the by i would have selected Egg tart (honest) for my other place getter, as i was um and ahhing between Egg tart and Coming Through. Brilliant horse early doors who has struggled a bit of late

Viney back in: ANB timely performance Harmes as above Bull demanded selection Tyson poor timing

Ok. I'll take Coming Though for place. The type of horse i really like. Gives you a good sight very time and rarely runs a bad race. Started fav last start and never really got out but was only 2.5 lengths behind the very impressive winner Oregon Day (who i tipped). Is 12 4-2-1 in the good ground. Comes in ok at the weights carrying 59 as a 108 rater, though not nearly as well as Oregon Day who is carrying 2kgs less and is only 3 rating point behind at 106

Sorry cannot let these comments go unchallenged: 'But in my defence, he was playing to a level that was far from AFL level last year. I stand by that observation. I understand the club sacrificed team performance by playing him when he was clearly not ready.' 'Oscar was therefor gifted games with an eye for the long term. I didn’t agree with it because it contributed to our poor performances defensively.' 'I do wonder why we didn’t opt for a stop gap key defender when there were plenty out there and let Oscar develop at VFL last year.' All three comments are embarrassing rubbish. Playing at a level far from AFL level last year? Ridiculous (and really a repetition of the silly assertion he was not AFL standard). Why do you think an AFL club with professional coaching and recruiting teams didn't recruit 'a stop gap key defender when there were plenty out there'? Because they obviously decided they didn't need to as they had complete confidence in Oscar. I repeat. They are paid professionals whose job is to make such assessments. And you wonder why they didn't agree with your assessment? I don't. I could see what they could see. I pointed it out to you on numerous occasions. I You made the silly assertion last year that chasing Lever was evidence of the weakness of Oscar. Baloney. It is telling they didn't go after another key back last trad period, particularly given they decised to Tmac was going to be a full time forward. They didn't need to. They had Oscar. One really good KPD is enough. Sacrificed team performance when he clearly was not ready? In a team pushing for finals? Right. Such was the confidence they had in Oscar last year they released his brother to go forward. Gifted games? You have to be joking. Maybe in 2016 they got some games into him for experience. Like they did last year witht Weeds. The difference is that once it was obvious Weed wasn't ready they sent him back to the VFL. Yet they kept Oscar in the side. Go figure. But games for the sake of experience last year no way. So, so silly to suggest that. Again. We were pushing for finals. As if a professional football club does that, particularly one playing in such a critical position. STMJ you are the one who said you do scouting for AFL clubs. If that is actually true then in all honesty i am incredulous you could make such comments. In fact repeat such comment after making them for the last 3 years. An AFL football team selects a player as 20 year and he plays 45 of the next 47 odd games possible games (and only getting dropped once), in one of most demanding positions in the game, and you think he is not AFL standard until like magic he suddenly is this year. Fair dinkum you have to be trolling (and playing the long game at that). I said before the start of this season that i was hoping to not have to read rubbish like these comments when the inevitable happened and Oscar went up a level and his ability becasme obvious even to the most trenchant critics. But i knew that i would. And now i have. To be frank, suggestions he didn't earn his games last year and the 'club sacrificed team performance by playing him when he was clearly not ready' are plain insulting to Oscar, not to mention patently wrong, and i cannot stand fans insulting their own players. And to be 100% clear not once have i ever said Oscar will be star. Just that he will be a strong AFL player who all things being equal will be a 200+ game player for the dees. The most extravagant i have been is that he will be better than his brother. Which i stand by (and heard second hand last year that some at the club firmly believe that too). You have been wrong all along with Oscar STMJ, despite what you believe. Facts are facts. Perhaps you might consider showing some humility and acknowledging you got it wrong rather than damning the young fella with faint praise and weasel words.

I have been washing Oscar's since he first joined the club.

Happy with picking the place horse, particularly in a 200 metre race. That distance sorts the wheat from the chaff a bit and unlike in 1600 metre races don't get those pesky 1400 metre horses that get a good run and snag a place. Just had a quick look at the filed. Pretty strong.

I do too and hit the like button to reflect that. But like is different to agree. We need some more buttons. An agree one. A disagree one. And a what you taking about Willis, i'm confused one.

I think there is bit of #tyson myths brewing. Doesn't have the strength to escape the inside?. Phoeey. His strength is his major asset and why he so often is able to extract the ball from congestion. Sure he gets pinged for holding a few times but one it is often because he gets the ball in traffic and two in reality it doesn't happen that often. I think tbe issue for him is two fold. His hands, and perhaps decision making, can somtimes be a little slow. The second is a technique thing. He often holds the ball away from the body and the ball gets jarred loose with contact. This means he sometimes gets pinged where he had no prior where others whohold onto the ball don't. I have said he is a chance to go out for viney based on the like for like principle and others like anb and harmes having had good games against the suns. But if he doesn't that would be a pretty clear statement by goody about how he rates tyson.

Can only be 2. Please close thread so no other alternatives can be suggested.

And dv8/deeeluded

They're not?

Not a big enough sample size.

Maybe. But he would still need to improve his kicking. Small forwarda have to take their chances. One advantage of him playing forward is he would have more opportunities to get out the back of oppos press and have space to run forward into.

Remarkable how accurate Tmac is kicking for goal given his field kicking is often so poor. I have a theory why he misses so many targets. I reckon he struggles with depth, not accuracy. His kicks are often too short or long. In front of goals he only has to worry about accuracy and always kicks through the ball well. In recent times only jack watts could come close to matching tmac for accuracy.