binman

Love it Snoop dog. A rare ray of logic shining through the morass. There is a lot of focus on injuries but the poor preseason is the real kicker as players can never get the fitness base game if not done pre season. its just not possible. Injuries hurt a team's chances of course but the impact is mitigated if the club had a good pre season with high percentages of players completing most if not all sessions. Richmond is good example this year. We have had the both issues and the impact is plain to see. I'd add that it must really hurt a teams capacity to run effective drill that simulate game plan and introduce any new systems when so many players can't train with the main group. Compounding that issue is who can't train. Having your key mids not available makes it hugely difficult to plan and practice set ups and plays at stoppages, which are critical parts of any game plan.

I hear what you are saying but in no universe was that a 50/50 game. As for how it played out, yes we were in it but only because the Lions missed any number of easy shots on goals and butchered the ball going inside 50 (perhaps they caught our bug). We, on the other hand, were unusually efficient in the first 2.5 quarters Even trac was kicking set shots. As soon as they cleaned up their efficiency and staring slotting goals from all over the shop they dominated and we got the result we deserved.

True, their defensive pressure was woeful. That's a worry.

Agree with all points. In some ways it was the most sobering loss we've had. We should have beaten wc and crows so they hurt. In tgis game we played ok but lions were clearly the better team all game (only their innacurate and lack of effficiency kept us in it) and eventually that told. I reckon an issue for us was that ecan before maxy got injured they were reading his taps brilliantly. And when their mids got it they did something dangerous with it. Unlike ours.

Agree. We need Lever to be the player we expected when we recruited him. But we might have to wait for next season as after such a long time out he will take some time to get back to his best.

Are you kidding? Do you think we should drop one? Who would come in? Do you think they will? Of course not. so why would anyone suggest it?

As per that article, back in May we had lost 89 games of best 22 players. GWS were in second, but way back on 65. That is a huge difference. Since that time they have had best 22 players come back. Of our outs only May (but only 2 games ago) and Hannan (whi has struggled, as replayers returning from long lay offs usually do) have come back and we have added Hibberd, Garlett and Lewis to that list. Make no mistake this been a disaster injury and pre season preparation wise. The worst run in my time following the club. I don't care how much depth you have you don't cover the sort of losses we've had - and you're right we don't have great depth.

Ok let's leave Smith out of the discussion. I forgot about jetts. An absolute key player for us as evidenced by the fact that small and medium forwards have destroyed us this year. When he did play was clearly injured and has been out now for what 7-8 weeks. So if you do count Smith in our best 22 we had 6 of our best 22 out against the lions, nearly a third (and 3 of them are easliy in our top 10). The lions had ALL of their best players, indeed they had almost a complete list of 44 players to choose from. So no surprise we lost.

Jury is definitely still out about Twiggy Lever.

Lever is not a star ? Jeez i hope you are wrong as we certainly paid a far bit for him and recruited him because he was star. If you believe some posters on DL (one in particular) you'd have thought we'd recruited a lock for multiple AAs and future all time great defender.

No, not in terms of where they are at as players but as i say Smith is an important out. Not as big an out as Andrews would be but we cannot mark the ball or bring it ground in our forward line and Smith was 100% locked in out best 22 and looked terrific in the preseason before his injury. And who knows might have a had a break out season and been a total gun. But how about comparing Lever to Andrews? That works does it not?

You're right that 5 beat the 5 we have out. At the moment I should have picked 5 different players. My point is we have 5 of our best 22 out. And if you took 5 of their best 5 out they would struggle.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-afl-injury-ladder-just-how-healthy-is-your-team-20190527-p51rpl.html&ved=2ahUKEwibo8brmZPjAhW07nMBHR6aBvkQFjAAegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw1BvKB5uRSVF6K2X9hmBCD5&ampcf=1

Sure. Melksham is in our best 5 as is lever (well should be). So they are the way a l of zorko and neale (who are top 5 for lions). The melk is massively important given our struggles kicking inside 50. Jeffy not near Cameron but important given we have no other small forwards Vanders easily the equal of Robinson for importance. And given our forward woes Smith a big out. So not far of the relative game of Andrews.

No it was total games lost to the nominal best 22. We have also had a shocking run with players who are not in our best 22. We had 15 players have post season surgery. I5. Must have been like an episode of MASH.

One thing we can't lose is players who can be relied on to hit a target by foot. We literally only have 4-5 In our best 25 players who can so it would be insane to voluntarily get rid of one of them.

I knew someone would reference the tigers, pies and saints. Yes they have had injuries but nothing even close to what we have experienced, as evidenced by that table that was commented on at length a few weeks ago with games of best 22 lost. And since then we lost Hibbard and jeffy for stretches. In addition the tigers and pies had a good pre seasons. The saints not as good but again nothing even close to the horror show that was our preseason. And it is a cold hard fact acknowledged by no one at club land at the start of the season but everyone after it that clubs who have too many players not completing a high percentage of pre season sessions struggle all season to get their list fully fit. Agree we were smashed in the contest yesterday but the fact remains they have their whole list, barring 2 players, fit and firing and we still have 5 of our best 22 out and any number of players playing not at full fitness. Facts are facts. Take zorko, neale, Andrews, Robinson and Cameron out of that side and and add 4 or 5 players coming back from lay offs and we probably win that game.

A dud tree?

Agree. He has been good in that role the last couple of weeks. A tad slow but has been reliable hitting targets which is just so critical, particularly when other defenders so regularly turn it over. He s also good in in congestion and traffic as is often the case down back and the HB role also plays to his ability to win contested ball (whereas the wing position doesn't and also exposes his lack of pace more). I know Hibberd is coming back from injury but i have to say i'm a bit worried about where he is at. If he does drop away Jones can take his spot, if and when Jetts come back in.

Yes. Sort of. In so far as has he has pointed out himself his poor form is confidence related which i suspect is directly related to having had an interrupted pre season and carrying an injury. And interrupted preseasons and injuries is not an excuse for poor form. It is a reason. The same reason the Tigers are struggling this year.

Yesterday was the perfect illustration of the impact of injury and big numbers of players having had interrupted preseasons. The lions are a good team that deserves to be in the mix for a top 4 ladder finish at year's end. But a big factor is that they have had a dream run with preparation and injury. They had a great preseason with few players not completing all sessions (which is a huge predictor of player form and team success as per misso's strategically leaked presentation to the board about our preseason woes). And they have had almost no injuries this season, with only 2 players currently on their injury list. Take say 8 of their best 22 out for most of the season and they are not making finals. We have had precisely the opposite experience in terms of preparation and injury. So no surprise we lost. And our situation makes any meaningful assessment of either goody's performance or our game plan difficult. Personally I'm not concerned about either. But what I am concerned about is how many players we have on our list who are terrible kicks. It is a huge issue for us and one that has no clear fix. It was on full display yesterday. I could pick any number of players but three that come to mind are three of our best players - Viney, Oliver and Brayshaw. All wasted chances going forward and all helicopter the ball making it dead easy for defenders. A huge problem given they are our starting mid field.

I'm not being facetious but he needs to find a way to get himself involved

Joeboy: bit too verbose

Go dees. See you all after the game. I am pretty confident.

And on the 7th day God created the ignore function #dontquoteMB