hardtack

Sorry, but I really have to take issue with the "soft at the contest" comment. Yes he had a bad year, but Green has NEVER been soft! I know that statistics can be misleading, but if we look at this year, he actually increased the number of tackles from 58 to 61 while playing one less game this year... sure maybe they weren't as effective as in previous years, but he was definitely NOT shirking the contest. Additionally, his disposals and marks were pretty much similar to 2010 and the only area we could probably say he obviously fell down in, was his kicking in front of goal... but he still managed 37 compared to 55 last year - not a bad return by any means. One of the problems Green had this year was that he was being instructed to play forward and himself lamented the fact that he was being restricted in his access to the ball as a result. If the ball is not being delivered to the forwards, then of course, being played forward, he is going to look bad and his effectiveness as a leader is limited.

You seem to consider the likes of RB to be resorting to insults, yet you make accusations of mindlessness on the part of those who disagree with your point of view? And that is ALL it is... a point of view based on one bad season where Green still manged to rank 11th in the Blueys by far better judges of player input and performance than either you or I and still managed to kick 37 goals in what was essentially a year affected by the weight of the captaincy!

Correct, he is not the leader we need, but he IS a player we need and he should be offered two years if that is what it takes to keep him. As I said in another post, it seems Brad is the Mike Hussey of the MFC!

Unless it's the Dees!

You mean the Canberra Tulip Festival? Went last week, but only to replenish my supply of chilli sauces from The Chilli Factory... got their new Scorpion Chilli Sauce which on a heat scale of 10 is rated a 15 :-)

I think you will find the MFC is well across sites like this and will be well aware of the general groundswell of feeling regarding Green's captaincy; he will not be captain next year. As for loyalty, call me old fashioned, but I have always been of the belief that loyalty is a two way street. Up until this year, Brad had put in 10 good and at times excellent, seasons of football, placing his body on the line (literally) and despite what people in their ignorance like to mistakenly call "holding the club to ransom", that is, going through contract negotiations in the past, he has remained a loyal club stalwart. Surely he has done enough to warrant our respect and more importantly the respect of the club. Football is about risk taking and just as Green has on many occasions put his body in the firing line (with dire results), maybe the club should return the favour and offer a two year contract. In my opinion, we lose absolutely NOTHING and risk absolutely NOTHING by doing so.

The more I think about it, the more I convince myself that Beamer may just be perfect for the captaincy role. He has proven through is ability to rebound from what must have been a very humiliating experience with his demotion, that he can up his performance in the face of adversity (or in this case, the weight of captaincy that hit Green) and being a died in the wool Dees supporter all of his life, it MUST be his dream to lead the club and I am sure that would drive him to perform well above his current level. (he could have Jones and Garland as his deputies)

You are of course correct... however, the bit that sticks in my craw (craw, NOT craw!) is the fact that some posters are saying that they are happy to see him walk if he can't accept one year; to me that is no different to saying offer him "none". Sure, they should offer him one, but if he doesn't accept then they should consider either upping his income with a clear set of KPIs for a further extension or offering two years. If we lose anymore experience from this club, then new coach or no new coach, we are going to be pushing "it" up a very steep incline for some time to come! There is no way he would ever be a list clogger. This idea of him holding the club to ransom doesn't cut it with me... he would simply be asking for what he truly believes he is worth (and I believe he is probably worth it as well),

I think he's talking about Grimes :-)

Fair points, but I still believe that if it is necessary to offer two years to stop him from walking, then I believe it should be done. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if Brad were to walk, he would be snapped up by any number of clubs and offered a minimum of two years; and there is equally no doubt in my mind that if he were told to walk, this would have major repurcussions on morale at the player level. The reason I cited the Grimes case, was to highlight the double standards that tend to be applied with regularity on these forums; a captain has one bad season and is no longer considered useful, while a player who is yet to prove his usefulness due to never being on the park, is being considered captaincy material.

It is NOT about time served and loyalty... it is about ability and the fact that Green has put in many years of above average performance and has had a bad year that could well be put down to the added weight of captaincy, he deserves his contract. It amazes me that people jump on Green for a poor season (and this is not directed at you SMcF), yet extol the virtues of players like Grimes and how they deserve the captaincy, yet.... can someone please remind me just how many games is it that Grimes has played over the past couple of seasons? Leadership, maybe, but captaincy?

They'll just tell you that the people at the MFC got it horribly wrong ;-)

You can call me a "bleeding heart and sentimentalist" if it makes you feel better, but I would say I'm a realist - the guy has had 12 very good seasons (I think it is - can't recall at what age he started) and one very poor season (regardless of age), so I am not prepared to write him off on the back of that. He thoroughly deserves to have his faith in the club repaid - he is starting to look like the Mike Hussey of the MFC. If you want to single Green out as having a terrible year, then you may as well add him to a list that includes all bar a small handful of our players - he still managed 11th in the Blueys, so by your reckoning, the vast majority of players on our list are in an even more tenuous position. I seem to recall Green commenting on his lack of ability to be effectual due to the fact he was not being allowed to play up the ground; if that was the case and my memory is not failing me, I would argue that those who comment on his lack of midfield input are way off the mark; even a captain must follow orders from above. I would think that Neeld will see that this was an issue and will probably play him further up the field, only moving him forward when an impact needs to be made.

So, what we want is someone who is articulate and can present well with the media, command the respect of his team mates and remain focused on the job at hand on the field without it having an adverse affect on his game? Maybe this is a job for a sports psychologist with experience in profiling? I would be reluctant to give the job to anyone based on our observations and opinions as I recall last year many of us, myself included, were in full support of Green being appointed. I know this will get a laugh out of many, but I am thinking that Garland may be a left of centre possibility as he is one of the only players I can think of who comes even close to meeting all of those criteria (Watts still needs a couple of years). And on Green... I am really disappointed, but not surprised (which in itself is disappointing), at the fact that people here are writing Brad off after one bad season as captain and discussing whether he now deserves a contract extension or that he should be happy to accept a one year extension. The guy has given his all for the club, has been one of our most hard at it, as recently as 2010 he had possibly his best season, and yet people still question his worth??? Unbelievable! Yes, he should probably be relieved ("stripped" sounds a tad harsh) of the captaincy, but in my opinion, he is probably still worth a 2 year extension with a slight salary increase if that's what it takes to get him to sign back on. Essendon supporters are often referred to as "the ferals" for their willingness to turn on their own... well, it seems there are a few Dees "supporters" who could possibly be referred to as "the fickles".

=1 - Jones =1 - Moloney 3 - Watts 4 - Martin 5 - Sylvia Moloney played a few blinders but went missing on occasion, while Jones was consistently very good... so I really cannot split them.

My only fear re Dawes is that he may be another Miller... shows a lot of promise but is unable to deliver it except for a few all too infrequent glimpses. Then again, I still believe he is definitely worth a go.

I would prefer Norman Gunston... no doubt he would bleed red and blue

It's possibly his last game before retirement and he intends to go out playing regardless of having a fractured cheek bone. His throat was a legacy of an injury early in his League (never call it Rugby) career. He is tough and he is not stupid.... just extremely dedicated. Hats of to him... I wish we had one or two more like him - I put Jones in that category after his desire to retake the field following his back/neck injury at the end of season 2010.

I don't know... I get the feeling it could go either way between Moloney and Jones - Jones has been Mr Consistent this year, while Moloney went through a very quiet patch mid-season. Too close to predict for mine (but then again, I'm usually wrong).

With a distinct lack of big bodied and skilled/experienced forwards up for grabs, we MUST go all out to get Dawes. As soon as I read that article this morning Neeld's working relationship with Dawes was the first thing I thought of as well; hopefully that could help to swing a deal.

Ok, I accept all of what you are saying... and I think that is the crux of the matter... Jones is willing to go into the contest where no sane person would and then will come out of it looking poor because his team mates have gone awol and he has had no one to clear the ball to.

I agree with everything you say except for the "shrug a tackle" comment. One thing I have noticed about Jones this year is that he has been able to shrug tackles consistently and in a couple of cases that I recall, he managed to break tackles and score impossible goals. His disposal continues to improve and as you say, his pace has picked up (although I have always found him to be deceptively quick when he needs to be).

Great to see he is going to stick fat with Todd Viney (from the Hun via MFC site): "Todd did a great job in his role as interim coach. Yes, he will certainly be a big part of Melbourne moving forward," Neeld said on Channel 7. "I've spoken to him a couple of times and he's a very passionate Melbourne person. He's fantastic at his job and has a lot to offer."

Yes, it is going to be interesting to see what view a new coach coming in will have. Neeld can take a dispassionate stance as he is coming in without having had to support Wona through what were obviously very trying times. If Neeld considers Wona to be worth persevering with, then maybe the lack of an "emotional attachment" will help Wona to focus on his performance as a player. Here's hoping.

Here's just a few off the first couple of pages of the Neeld thread... I got bored and stopped :-) Old Man Rivers wmth myboywattsy the master Demon Land 7 MrMoose