hardtack

I am not doubting that OD, but I get the feeling Watts will be fine and that he and Neeld will settle their differences (if there are in fact any to begin with). Sylvia may go and many will say he will not be missed, but I get the feeling he would like to see his time out with the Dees and that a lot of people underestimate his loyalty to the club. I for one hope he will remain at the club. As for Frawley, I think you will find that GNF is basing his whole theory on him leaving the club around that still unsubstantiated rumour of a nightclub altercation between he and Sylvia.

Does he have any coaching qualifications (a la Brad Green) or are you suggesting we get an untried midfield coach? Seem to recall you commenting we shouldn't ever get another untried coach, so shouldn't that "rule" carry over to our various line coaches? Besides, I would have thought Roos would try for Kirk ahead of Black... which will not happen because Roos won't be coming anyway.

Didn't you know that Walter Mit...err, GNF, has two sources - a player manager AND a board member. The player manager has told him that Watts has received interest from Carlton and that Frawley and a number other others are set to go in a mass walk out (unless I missed them, no other names were mentioned, funnily enough - despite him saying he has provided names in other threads)... the board member told him that Roos is talking to the club about coaching next year... this despite the fact that he has come out and categorically stated he is not interested in coaching at all next year and certainly not interested in coaching Melbourne in any way, shape or form in the short term; but of course GNF will tell you that this is a "professional lie" because Neeld is currently under contract.

As I said above... tell that to Freemantle.

You really mix in the right circles... player managers, board members... I'm sure they're going to give you all of the inside information. And what does it matter that Neeld is still contracted? It certainly never stopped Freemantle when both Lyon and Harvey still had one year left on their respective contracts.

Despite HH putting up a rather compelling list of reasons, I'm still of the opinion that Neeld should be given until at least the end of the year to complete his rebuild (I'm interested to see what he does with the midfield)... however, if we were to go down the route of taking on an experienced coach in the near future, then assuming we have a list of quality coaches, rather than throwing money at them, I would be more inclined to go for the one asking the least amount of dollars... at least that will be a good indicator of their true motive for taking on the job.

Of course you can't, but watching Roos, the only impression I got was that he had zero interest in coaching the MFC - a particularly telling point was his pointed reference to the fact that he would not be attracted by large sums of money being thrown his way; that is, if he doesn't have the passion, he won't do it for any amount of money - and I think he made it quite clear he no longer has much passion for the coaching caper.

Believe it or not, Hird and Roos are not the same person... just because one says one thing and does another, it doesn't necessarily follow that the other will do the same.

No way... he didn't completely rule out coaching (but he did all but rule it out), but I got the impression that he was definitely NOT interested in coaching at the MFC.

I think you might underestimate my age OD... I am into my 6th decade now. m.e.n..th..oi..ds The thing though that used to give me and my friends a laugh on the way home from school each day was the ginormous Indian Root Pills signage on the side of a rather tall building somewhere near Hawthorn, that was clearly visible from the train (Lilydale, Belgrave and Alemain lines).

In what should be (not saying it WILL be) a war of attrition (pride is on its last legs), we should see Dunn go onto Martin and Jetta return to go onto Jake King. In the ensuing softening up period, both Martin and King are reported for elbows to the head and groin areas of their respective opponents and so are nullified by the weight of concern over whether they will be available to play in the following week's must win game against Essendon - that's my dream start. The in-form VC "Judy"Garland will take on "Moaning" Jack Reiwoldt, Frawley on McGuane and because of his height, the only real match-up for Oran Stephenson can be Sellar. For the remaining defenders, Nicholson is the only one with enough pace to stay with Nahas and Terlich will need to contain Knights. I will be rather surprised (disappointed) if Magner is not promoted off the rookie list, and if he is, he should replace either McKenzie or Bail (maybe Bail?). Blease will maybe get a recall in Sylvia's absence and I hope they somehow find a way to slot the Fitz into the line-up... although, Casey having not played last weekend won't have helped his chances. If any of Jones to the power of two, Evans or Magner can get first hands on the ball by roving well to the ruck work of Ivan Maric, we should be a reasonable chance down forward... providing the incoming kicks aren't bombed over the head of Dawes as was the case on Sunday. Maybe Tapscott will move back to the centre in place of Bail or menthoids man McKenzie so that the Fitz can come into the forwards to add a bit of height and, hopefully, goal kicking ability. Depending on whether these guys can show a little pride in themselves and their supporters, this game could either blow out very badly or be decided by just a few goals (4 - 6)... still can't see us prevailing, but can only hope for four contested quarters where we don't see them standing around flat footed while their opponents run into space at will.

But I'm sure if we went back through the recruiting at every club, we would probably find similar stories. And for every failed top draft pick, there is a success story with a lowly draft pick.

I have said from the beginning that Neeld should be given the opportunity to complete his brief... he is at the halfway mark now and at the end of this season will no doubt be addressing the missing pieces in the midfield and defence. If we kick off 2014 with more diabolical losses, then yes, by all means consider him gone. I do watch the games (obviously) and at the moment I see a team that simply isn't trying, is failing to offer each other support and that is playing for nobody (not just the coach as posters like yourself like to imagine). If these players had any pride in their own ability as footballers, they would be doing a lot more. If they cared about their supporters, they would be doing a hell of a lot more. If they are under-performimg just to spite the coach, then they should be ashamed of themselves. They are NOT bigger than the game. I do not know if Neeld is responsible, as the playing group insist there is no rift... you obviously think differently, but I doubt you know any more than the rest of us; despite you claiming to have the inside word from an unnamed player manager. This is an internet forum and such claims will always be taken with a grain of salt. Listen to Garland, if you cannot detect the sincerity in his words, well...

They were not "dumped" from the leadership group... or are you of the opinion that the leadership group should carry over from year to year? Neeld when he came in I believe said something to the effect that he would start with a clean slate and he was true to his word - please correct me if I'm wrong about that. I didn't agree with Rivers being removed from the leadership group, but I had no objection to Green stepping down from the captaincy (it was patently obvious he was at the end of his career and it would be best to blood a new captain) and Moloney being removed from the leadership group; Moloney was not what I would have considered a particularly good leader. And as or the Green captaining the Australian team.... well most were saying that the series is a waste of time and should be abandoned, so I would hardly be putting that up as being significant. And as for Watts being dragged... do you believe poor play should be rewarded... or are you against any player being dragged and for the sub system being done away with? You may consider it an ordinary post (I have no problem with that at all)... I just consider it to be my opinion. I am also not a big fan of the two captains system we have and believe that Jones should be sole captain with either Garland, Clark or Grimes as deputy.

Moloney (note spelling) - most public humiliation was demotion from Vice Captaincy after being drunk in a public place - NOT under Neeld's watch Brad Green's greatest public humiliation was being played as a sub - NOT under Neeld's watch Jack Watts was sent back to Casey under Bailey and Neeld for underperforming. His greatest public humiliation was being played in the Queen's Birthday game - NOT under Neeld's watch. Martin and Rivers - can't recall either being publicly humiliated by any coach... but of course, if you care to elaborate, as I said previously, I'm all eyes. His recruitment efforts are yet to be proven poor... Hogan will be a plus, Toumpas will be a plus, M Jones is already a plus, Barry we don't know enough about yet, Kent has shown a bit already, Viney is going to be very good, Dawes will be a worthwhile get, Clark has been our best get for a long time, Byrnes and Roden were brought in for leadership (not necessarily purely onfield) and cost us next to nothing - who else do you suggest we could have got in their place?

Just tweeted by AFL that Sylvia has been offered 3 weeks rest by the MRP... also noticed that Dawes got a reprimand... anyone know what that was for?

Yet you are still unable to support your assertion that Frawley's desire to leave the club is well documented. I have no-where stated that I believe Neeld to be a good coach or a bad coach, that is your assumption... perhaps it makes it easier for you to put everyone in either the good coach/bad coach baskets? And a pointer for you as well GNF... if you are going to discuss these matters, please make sure you read the posts carefully... if you had, you just might just find that I never actually referred to any comments made by any player leaving the club.

Hang on, you stated that Frawley's desire to leave the MFC is well documented... I simply asked where. As for my other comments being bizarre, I just want a playing group that is prepared to work hard to advance themselves and the club. Can you tell me what leadership Moloney displayed when we really needed him to show it...I liked him, but he went missing far too often when he was really needed. Rivers wanted a chance to play finals... his nose may have been put out of joint by being dropped from the leadership group, but I think his primary reason would have been to play finals... so who would begrudge him moving to a team like Geelong?

Ok, then of the three you have mentioned, two are players many posters (not myself, by the way) are suggesting should be delisted anyway (Watts and Sylvia). The only real documenting of Frawley's desire to leave the club that I have seen has been on these forums and was very tenuously linked to some altercation between himself and Sylvia in a nightclub and that no-one else seems to have seen or heard about... it was certainly never written up anywhere but on D'Land and Big Footy. Of course, if you have links to more reliable sources, then I'm all eyes. In some ways, I will be pleased if he has split and antagonised the playing group, as they needed waking up... if they are upset over having to do some hard work and temper their social activities, then I'm ok with that. If they are upset over changes to the leadership group in a team that had no leadership being displayed, then I am ok with that as well.. however, if you are privy to information that says it is for other reasons, then please do tell.

Ok, of those 12 uncontracted players (is there a list available?), how many are likely to be asked to re-sign. how many would be picked up by a club should they decide to walk, and how many are likely to be delisted anyway? If you are so confident that they are planning a mass exodus, perhaps you could name names (it's easy to make sweeping statements)? As for the contracted players, I believe that the club can simply refuse a trade request, yes?

I haven't been in the habit of belittling those who are seeking Neeld's dismissal, but I am happy to say now that I still believe Neeld should be given the chance to see out his rebuild (at least until the start of next season) - I cannot see how sacking him immediately will solve anything and it could well serve to set us back even further. However, despite what I would like to see, the fact is that I think he may well be gone by season's end (looking at shots of him in the coach's box yesterday, he looked like a man about to fall on his own sword). Oh, and as far as belittling goes, I think you will find that it has been going on from both sides of the fence.

Considering that we have just one free agent and one unrestricted free agent, how do you propose this um, "mass walkout", will be effected? You should never make promises you can't keep.

Yeah, my 11 year old is teaching me a few lessons... I tend to sit in front of the TV throwing my hands up in the air whining about our inability to stay with the opponent, the fact that they allow the man too much latitude, the fact they don't seem to be able to lay a tackle below the shoulders, and finally when in exasperation I say that I'm through with the club, he will tell me I'm weak and that they are at least out there doing it while I'm just sitting around complaining... he reminds me that in the end it really is just a game and he is teaching me that I shouldn't throw the towel in. I would have thought most kids his age would just move on to a more successful club to follow, but he is a true supporter who is happy to be in it for the long haul... I have nothing but admiration for him.

Dawes, Jones, Frawley, Sylvia, Howe etc... I think there are still a few.

Yeah, it's almost like a televisual version of Demonland ;-)