Rogue

Right age and right 'type'. I'm interested, and while there seem to be some concerns over his character I'm sure the same could be said about more than a few AFL players. Sure, he's had some injury problems, but I think it's worth a shot with a pick that'd we'd use pretty late in the draft if not for a recycled player in the PSD.

You should be

...and he doesn't have any other strings to his bow, so he's not good enough for a decent 22. IMO it's the opposite way around. His field kicking is actually pretty nice, but he hasn't been able to convert when he's had goal-kicking changes.

McDonald's call-up is better late than never. Henriques didn't exactly set the world on fire in his couple of games, although I'm not holding that against him. The number of injuries has been ridiculous - I count nine, although two of those have been to players in place of injury, so only seven missing from our best side? RE: Siddle, he only bowled 5 due to injury. RE: Hodge, I think he's finished at international level. If they didn't pick him for the 20/20 I don't see why they'd now pick him for the Test side. Deciding on the Test opening spots should be interesting (but probably won't be).

You're a good sport

I can't wait for the next Telstra Bigpond advertisement in which the Dad relies on press conferences and other musings from sporting figures when helping his son with English homework

Haha, nicely done (sorry, WYL!)

I think bb was giving reasons for some players being on the fringe, rather than talking about PJ in particular.

It'd be a logistical nightmare.

The attitude of some fans is pretty amusing. On one hand, Judd was slammed because of his arrogance at interviewing Clubs, making it a media circus, etc. On the other, Ball is slammed for his aloofness, not coming out and commenting, etc. On one hand, Judd* was slammed for talking to us when he didn't really want to come, being money-hungry, etc. On the other, Ball is slammed for not talking to us. To some fans, the only way players can win is if they say Melbourne's great and decide to join us. *Davey was also slammed for talking to other Clubs, wanting to leave the Club, being money-hungry, etc.

If you look at RR's comments in context you'll find they're quite cogent.

According to the dictionary defintions I've provided, the difference is not that one is about one describing an innate gift while the other describes the realisation of potential through hard work, dedication, etc. If you think the dictionary definitions I've quoted are 'dodgy', feel free to provide definitions from another dictionary that contradict those and suggest the definition attributed to Barassi is correct (I haven't found any). I know what he meant, and it's something that's been lectured about since the dawn of time. It's something drummed into talented people in various walks of life, and if Barassi was a talented youngster I imagine it was drummed into him too. I simply don't think the definitions attributed to Barassi are semantically correct, which is what this debate is all about. I think it's you that's missed the point. First, the 'theory' - if you can call it that - is not on trial. As I've said, the attribution was posted because of a debate about semantics of talent and ability, not football philosophy. [by the way, even if this were a debate about the 'theory', the fact that the fact he's coached premierships doesn't 'prove' the 'theory'. However, that's beside the point - the debate isn't about the 'theory'.] I haven't ever suggested that the gist of what's been attributed to him by Hannibal is somehow a flawed coaching 'philosophy' or 'theory', simply that his definitions of talent and ability are semantically incorrect. Surely you don't think that the fact that he's coached successfully at AFL level prove that he used some words in a semantically correct manner? If you idolise Barrassi so much you take definitions of words attributed to him over dictionary defintions that's fair enough, but be upfront about it.

Rookie one each year every year.

I think you were either over-eager to take a pot shot at someone or you're too convinced by the superiority of your own views on football that you failed to consider some of the reasonable queries about LJ's physicality that have been mentioned here. There's that little issue of the opposition I agree, and this is why I'd like it to happen. Assuming Watts turns into a forward playing a similar gamestyle to Riewoldt I'd like someone closer to hime who provides that long 'get out of jail' target. The last we've had is Holland, while Jamar provied somewhat effective playing that way and of course guys like Kosi and Roughead do it better. RE: Williams, I'd point to Hawthorn stocking up on KPFs (Franklin, Roughead, Thorp and Dowler). I simply paraphrased your assertion in order to reply in a concise manner. I certainly didn't want to misrepresent your argument - you'll note my argument still stands if you interpret my response as challenging the assertion that he was 'one of the first'. The idea that Barassi was one of the first to tell his players that realising potential needed more than just natural ability is simply unfathomable. I bet their mothers told them before he coached them. You can't get closer than synonyms Here's the definition of talent: Here's a definition of ability: While there is some difference it's certainly not the difference which is outlined in what's being attributed to Barassi, with one being innate skill and another describing someone who has paired that with hard work in order to realise their potential. I don't know why you're being so condescending, particularly since your example actually fails to prove your point. It also works like this: "Last year we became aware of LJ's talent and after working hard on the track, in the 2nd half of the season we saw just how much ability he has."

Sure, and we could no doubt go back even further. However, it seems ridiculous that the idea that natural ability isn't enough to be a success is a somehow special or important aspect of one particular coach. I have no doubt that the refrain that that ability will only get you so far has been used since the beginnings of time. Anyway, back to Jurrah. Thoughts on the suggestion that Jurrah will play his best forward line football if we have two 'key' targets and he's the 'third tall'? I think this is the ideal, but - as we've seen with another 24 - sometimes it doesn't pan out this way.

Don't think you are and don't think this needed a new thread :D I bet he's heard that one before Sorry 45, couldn't resist.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I see what you did here.

I still think we differ on all three points. I'll concede that he seems big enough to do so but when has he actually done it? Why should we expect that his game will change, given he's ~25 and hasn't shown it yet? Unfortunately, while I agree that he has a decent kick he hasn't converted when he's been played up forward in the past. I like this too but PJ's not the guy.

I see PJ in a different light to you on pretty much every aspect. How many times has he taken a pack mark (1)? Not very often. He fits the 'big man who doesn't realise he's big' stereotype and I believe the Coach has even commented on this before. If he did play forward he wouldn't be giving us the tall 'get out' option because he doesn't play the 'pack busting' style (3). If he was a forward he'd be more of a leading forward. While I do think PJ is a good kick (2) his kicking for goal has let him down on the occassions he has played forward.

Are you serious? Barassi was the first to stress that you can't skate by on ability alone? Since the beginning of time people have been told that ability isn't enough in itself, and this applies to all endeavours - not just football. Btw, talent = ability. EDIT: I'm not entirely sure you're not just having me on. If so, I took the bait hook, line and sinker.

Telling him to get out when you've been signed up 9 days longer yet posted an extra 2049 posts is a bit rich.

IMO the jury's still out and won't be back for a little while yet but he looks alright. However, I think the expectation that he'll make it would be about 1/8 of what they are if DB/CC hadn't talked him up.

What do you disagree with (particularly my post, since you quoted it)? Nothing you've said about Rivers' strengths contradict or are mutually exclusive with what I've suggested are his weaknesses.

I think your logic is faulty. It relies on an assumption that isn't necessarily held by others. You suggest that the 'yet' implies inevitability - it doesn't. ...or maybe some simply don't agree that talent requires that you turn your ability into success. It's hardly a concept that's 'a tad obtuse' for very many - most children have it drummed into them many times. To suggest talent is the successful coupling of ability with effort, practice, dedication, sacrifices etc is IMO incorrect, and certainly contradicts dictionary definitions and common usage. If Barrassi wanted to define talent in this manner and it worked then good for him. I doubt any success he did have was linked to the specific words used though. EDIT: I didn't read Nasher's reply, which provided a more succint reply than mine. Gold? Telling people they need to work hard to realise their potential, make the most of their ability? Come on..! You'd be hard pressed to find a coach in the history of footy that hasn't talked about it (although they may not have suggested the realisation of ability was 'talent'). An education in what? Separating ability and output is hardly a concept Barassi can claim credit for. Whatever the merits of the distinction the semantics are wrong, and idolisation of a footballing great needn't cloud that. By the way, I know you've asserted your penchant to 'tell it like it is', but civility isn't a sign of intellectual weakness.

He wasn't on our list in 2008, so it would have been tough for him to get a game then! From round 12 this season he had a quad injury, so the Dees would have struggled to give him a taste even if they wanted to. I know nothing about him but it seems premature to put a line through him after one season on the rookie list, half of which he was injured. *shrug