DeeSpencer

Give me a break Jumbo. Show me the big thighs on Gunston in either of these photos: http://www.google.com.au/imgres?sa=X&rlz=1C1NOOH_enAU484AU484&es_sm=93&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=wT2M8OnEngc7DM:&imgrefurl=http://www.afl.com.au/gallery/2013-05-04/afl-2013-rd-06-adelaide-v-hawthorn&docid=Pdi2XsiP0YSTjM&imgurl=http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%252520Tenant/Media/Galleries/Matches/2013/AFL%2525202013%252520Rd%25252006%252520-%252520Adelaide%252520v%252520Hawthorn/286087_gp.jpg&w=438&h=620&ei=OAZJUr2LJsmslAWehYDYCw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:5,s:0,i:97&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=232&tbnw=183&start=0&ndsp=17&tx=107&ty=83 http://www.google.com.au/imgres?sa=X&rlz=1C1NOOH_enAU484AU484&es_sm=93&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=BijdqEqQJv-27M:&imgrefurl=http://www.fiveaa.com.au/audio_crows-2nd-round-draft-pick-jack-gunston_95325&docid=X4COrJ8lEw5cBM&imgurl=http://www.fiveaa.com.au/lib/images/audio/normal/crows-2nd-round-draft-pick-jack-gunston-99649.jpg&w=310&h=398&ei=OAZJUr2LJsmslAWehYDYCw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:9,s:0,i:109&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=232&tbnw=194&start=0&ndsp=17&tx=51&ty=34 Or Fyfe http://www.google.com.au/imgres?sa=X&rlz=1C1NOOH_enAU484AU484&es_sm=93&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=crLttJ6vkoOSKM:&imgrefurl=http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/news/2011-07-27/nat-fyfe-contract-extension&docid=BNayjNNj2-i_0M&imgurl=http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/staticfile/AFL%252520Tenant/Invisible%252520Archive/Images/Static%252520Files/fremantle_images/2009_Promotion_Pics/fyfe-resigns246a.jpg&w=246&h=316&ei=LAdJUsWJFsfMkwXp2YCICw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:56,s:0,i:254&iact=rc&page=3&tbnh=186&tbnw=143&start=42&ndsp=24&tx=32&ty=80 Look at this imposing build http://www.google.com.au/imgres?sa=X&rlz=1C1NOOH_enAU484AU484&es_sm=93&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=6JDXstJoD6_j5M:&imgrefurl=http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/nathan-fyfe-pick-20-2009-nd.656368/&docid=hAg3k9aaFnZydM&imgurl=http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/images/AFL/AFL%252520K-O/FYFE%252520Nat_draft_246_meeta.jpg&w=246&h=316&ei=LAdJUsWJFsfMkwXp2YCICw&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:0,s:0,i:78&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=188&tbnw=143&start=0&ndsp=19&tx=82&ty=111 You are right it's about attitude, development, work ethic and footballing skills. It's not at all about how many kg's of muscle they carry when they are 18, just finished most of their growing, not even finished puberty and really shouldn't be doing any heavy weights training. Port Adelaide fitness guru Darren Burgess doesn't even let his first year draftees do weights. He builds up their fitness and core strength first and that seemed to go ok for Oli Wines, Jake Neade and Sam Colquhoun.

Stop overrating him. He's good at ground level for a behemoth, but still has a heap of work to do there. He's not as good as Sandilands is at ground level. He uses the ball well by hand. His foot skills are ok for what you expect from a guy of 208cm but he needs to work on his goal kicking a lot. His marking is promising but not outstanding. He has to make sure that his current European holiday that he's on doesn't take away from him making big fitness and strength gains before next year. And he needs to stay healthy. He could be the next Sandilands or he could be the next Robbie Warnock.

Cale Morton entered the AFL with only slightly different build than Nat Fyfe who was top 5 on ground Saturday and is 22. Jack Gunston is only 21 and has a super skinny build but was second best on ground. Can't deal with the no skinny kids attitude

Because people like us listen. Because Hutchy has found enough advertisers to pay for a couple of B grade presenters to do some talk back that doesn't cost much And because clubs and managers are happy to provide content which they use to push their argument or distribute misinformation

Yeah Shaw plus pick 10 for pick 2 is yuck. We get a slightly better but much older half back flanker than Terlich, Clisby, Strauss and Grimes and lose our shot at a midfield star. Pick 2 should only be for elite/semi elite but perfect in other category types like Sloane, S.Selwood, D. Swallow.

Had a very good year and dominated VFL whenever he was at that level. Just needs more work into the body to translate to consistent AFL performance. With Gawn and Spencer so far as our rucks for the future Roos will have to adapt and change to a 1 primary, 1 back up system I believe rather than the sharing role he preferred with Ball/Jolly, Mumford/Pyke at Sydney. Big Maxy and Spencer just don't get the job done up forward with the lack of mobility. But luckily we have Fitzpatrick and Clark both who can perform that second ruck role very well.

A fully fit Clark and Freo might be interested if we added a lot to the deal. But currently Mitch has no value and we shouldn't trade him anyway. I feel we will be left disappointed by this years trade period. We have no leverage except Roos and that will only get us so far. We wont be in the Taylor Adams race. There isn't much else going. We might over pay Heath Shaw which will probably be a bad move. What I want is to fast forward to this time next year. It might still be a long season on the field but I can't help think we will be in way better shape this time next year and will have a vision to sell some possible recruits and some players to deal to make it happen.

Cheney? The only apprenticeship he's been serving is the one he's about to embark on for his post footy career as a Nurse. Decent hard nut footballer but not defensive enough to hold a spot as a true defender, lacks height to play tall and small and skills weren't up to it at Melbourne and isn't at Hawthorn either. Same as Spangher he's never going to be a regular best 22. If Franklin leaves he might see game time but they might use Hale as a forward more, develop Grimley, trade for a ruckman (ie Mumford or Billy Longer) or just play Gunston as a slightly small full forward and kick it to him and watch him get a 50 plus goal season. These type of players are the ones you have on your list when you are close to a flag and you need depth to be able to step in just in case you get a late injury crises. When you are in the situation like we are you hold one or two extra players over as kids who might not make it instead. Either way the likes of Spangher have GWS and Gold Coast freeing up 88 extra AFL list spots and taking 40 top quality kids between them away from the other 16 teams.

Limited coaching resume. No experience outside the Roos and Lyon game plan unless you go back to his playing days under Eade. And you sure he can speak fine - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKlE5ICe5rA He'd make a good assistant under Roos but I want the senior assistant to be someone who can help Roos develop an ongoing plan for the list, for the game plan etc. I get the feeling Kirk would just roll with Roos' / Lyon's plan and then be found wanting when he got the job. All culture wont make a difference if you don't have a successful, diligent and well worked plan. Simpson comes from a great culture at North when they were shinboners to Hawthorn where they are smart, skilled and ruthless. I wouldn't worry about that. We also can't implement the bloods culture because we aren't the bloods.

Yze brief isn't only goal kicking coach. He's a very involved runner on match day, which I consider cheating but is within the rules and good luck to him.

That's not right. It was McPharlin and Croad for pick 1 (hodge), pick 20 (didn't make) and pick 30 something (Sam Mitchell). It shows that there list was actually ok at the time but they couldn't hold McPharlin and made a big call on Croad and in turn got 2 champions who were the back bone of the 2008 flag. They also went down hill for a while in 2004 as you mentioned. Which coincided with Mitchell and Hodge turning into guns just after that. Very good timing! I'm not sure what the Croad trade back was for but it was much cheaper than what he was sent off at. McPharlin and Croad deal for Freo wasn't too bad. It's just they didn't have the culture and professionalism at the time to turn those guys into the book end talls that they could've been together. Instead Croad didn't work out but McPharlin certainly did. If Freo had their time again they would've picked Hodge and traded pick 20 and 30 whatever for just McPharlin. Swapping Hodge to the other team might have been enough to make the difference yesterday I'm pretty sure.

Yeah but they had all the youngsters that made them such a massive attraction. No different to Collingwood bringing in Jolly and Tarrant. They certainly got their picks right in guys like Hale and Lake. They paid for them and took them in and even improved their form. But Gunston was a massive freebie just like the cats getting Caddy last year. Both teams underpaid for them as well but as is the nature of trade week the original club (ie Adelaide) had to take the offer on the table or lose Gunston for nothing.

Buddy finally attacked the contest and used his pace and size yesterday. But at the same time didn't have much impact on the game. He's out of form that's for sure. I disagree about not needing a great ruckman. Hawthorn did an amazing job in the first quarter at tackling and stopping Freo winning clearances but as the game went on especially in the third and start of fourth quarter Sandilands was smashing them. Mundy and Fyfe were the dominant mids on the ground. Unfortunately for Freo they just weren't switched on in the first quarter. They had some bad shots on goal and other chances were the final kick/handball forward went missing and with a 2-3 goal breeze at least were 2 goals down at quarter time. That's a huge deficit. Back to the Hawthorn list I'm not that overawed with their trading in. They had a dominant young team in 2008 after drafting and developing guys like Lewis, Franklin, Rioli, Roughead, Birchall to go with Hodge, Mitchell and Sewell. That had them so well placed for years to come that they were incredibly popular for any recruits. Burgoyne obviously wanted to go to Hawthorn. Gibson wanted to play with Buddy as much as he wanted out of the Hawks. Hale saw what happened with Gibson and wanted it as well. And freaking Gunston, got home sick after 1 week at Adelaide but of course only wanted to return to the hawks. And Lake was an absolute steal but not many other clubs wanted/needed him. Pretty much when you assemble the young talent the hawks did then all the out of contract players see a great opportunity. Their kicking skills are elite but Freo played into their hands at times when they rushed the counter attack into no one with an extra hawk defender. Hawthorns chip it around plan is actually a defensive plan as much as how to move the ball forward because it slows the game and lets defenders get in positions to minimise turnovers and damage from turnovers.

The insane work rate, tackling, physical efforts and ability to halve or win one on one contests were my impression from the grand final. Remember it was a very windy day which made kicking hard. Most of the hawks better kicking was from half back where they are elite but also incredibly disciplined and structured. They always have a man for the switch and instinctively go for it. Hawthorn are the best kicking side but it's only about 20% of the reason why they won the grand final.

I suspect it's more Mike getting back on the bandwagon. I get the feeling he misses the lime light since he's stepped down from full time herald sun hence why he still does open mike, OTC and the top 50 and often tries to provoke headlines. But even if he's jumping on it's still a positive sign. He's a guy who for the last decade at least he placed his professional career ahead of his personal team support which is actually quite admirable. Mark Robinson could take note.

I'm not a fan at all. But I want him to stay because at least he'll put his head over it and he showed this year that he does have some propensity to tackle. In no way do I expect him to ever become a super hard 2 way runner, be anywhere above average at clearances or actually make sound decisions with the ball consistently but if he can back up his second half of 2013 again I think that actually contributes something. The other option is losing him for nothing. It would be nice if the club could lock him away on a 2 year deal though without getting held hostage for 3 or anything like that.

Played mainly as a small forward and only really got going towards the mid to end of season IIRC. At least that's when he started to impact the scoreboard regularly. Will be interesting to see if he goes in any of the drafts. I'd suspect coming from a cricket background he'd be perfect to have train with a club before the rookie draft to have a closer look at - see where they can get his fitness before they take a punt on him.

A reunion with Dean Bailey maybe?

Probably because he got 30 touches almost every week for Casey and played more games than Gawn and Hogan and still didn't win the B+F. Magner's games looked good on paper but the Liston and even more tellingly now this B+F indicates to me he just wasn't making anywhere enough impact. I suspect even at VFL he'd be looking like the Matt Priddis of the team where as he needs to look like Sam Mitchell when he's in the VFL if he wants to be any chance of AFL.

Port lost D Pearce and Chaplin in free agency last year. Then were ready to sign Monfries. But they did the maths on losing Pearce and Chaplin and worked out for their sake they were better sending a pick to Essendon for Monfries (who gladly accepted something over nothing) and then receiving better compensation. Melbourne should've done the same thing as we lost Rivers and Moloney and brought in Byrnes. If we traded a late rubbish pick to Geel for Byrnes we may well have got better compo for Moloney and Rivers. I actually agree with compensation because the FA market place is so weak. Who were St Kilda meant to replace Goddard with? If Frawley leaves where are the good key defenders on the FA market? It's not EPL or NFL where you just sign a similar player from some other team on a big market.

Ok that legitimately saves this thread!

Agree with your point, but I'd say whist Freo will always have a strong base in Fremantle they really are the second Perth or even second WA team. I've never been there but from what I here Fremantle still has it township feel but it also a part of Perth. Geelong are really one out in maintaining a club based in one set community. I saw Freo fans campaigning to keep Freo's training base in Fremantle and I thought they were foolish. The hawks wouldn't be what they are today if they stayed at Glenferrie and same with the Pies at Vic Park.

Sydney board

All sounds like a great dream besides wasting a rookie spot on a guy who's background is so troubled he's unlikely to stick around long enough to provide any meaningful benefit to the side. How about club trades for 1 quality midfielder. Club recruits midfielder in rookie draft and develops him into absolute superstar like Kieran Jack.

For a part time job. Obviously excessive which is why Roos can't complain too much about the 55% pay cut they offered. But they were obviously willing to pay him overs to keep him involved at the club in some aspect. All clubs had access to the NSW scholarship program. The best 3 are Taylor Walker (by a mile), Craig Bird and Witts from Collingwood. Not sure anyone else has had any real success. That program is now being disbanded and Perris is one of the last if not the last remaining. The new academy program is a way for NSW and QLD kids to get access to elite coaching and development so more of them can get drafted. It's in place of the TAC for Victorian kids. Sydney and every other club will then have free reign to take these kids through the draft. Obviously the swans have their name on their one and oversee the program and therefore have better knowledge of those kids but it's no different to WA clubs having better understanding on the kids coming up through WA. The good ones in the Sydney program will get spotted by all clubs and Sydney might get a little advantage but will have to pay up the draft picks for it. And if more kids stay in Sydney from a NSW base that's not necessarily a bad thing. Ideally the swans academy gets taken away from the club and is AFL run but it's a more attractive and probably cheaper model if it has the backing of the swans. So scholarship system is out, swans academy is in and that's a good thing overall.