Dr. Gonzo

Hogan is a completely different beast to Watts. I understand what you're saying with guys like Darling and Butcher falling down the draft order but at the end of the day they will be still be gun forwards for a long time so I have no issues with trading 3 for Hogan as we still have 4 for another midfielder. If we get Hogan though definitely do not want Dawes, would not be required. Would be hoping we can offload Cook as well for a later pick we could use to upgrade a rookie possibly. EDIT: Hogan's physique together with his performance at Draft Combine in 3k time trial and beep test as well as his attack on the ball and marking ability indicate he will be a very very good player once he hits the AFL. Only query would be on his goalkicking technique but give us a year to work on him before 2014 and I'm sure we can work out some kinks (though to be honest despite his kicking style which seems a bit awkward based on the extremely limited footage I've seen he still appears quite accurate so maybe not an issue). Also does anyone know if Hogan would come over to Vic to play for Casey next year or will he stay in Perth to finish his schooling? (I assume he's in year 12 next year?)

There's no such thing as a free lunch I guess. We had a win today with Viney slipping to 26 - the cost is that we may have to pay overs for MD2. All good. Don't see how we could get Barry though - the reports on the Saints-GWS trade today indicate they have utilised all their zone recruits now.

What other options did we have? Don't worry, these things turn. No-one wants to come here now because we've been an on-field rabble for 6 seasons but if we can improve over the next year or so things will change and we'll be an attractive prospect, especially with plenty of room in the cap. I'd like to get Caddy but the rest I'm not too fussed about. Dawes has had a horrible year, Wellingham is a hipster doofus, wasn't all that keen on Boak - don't get me wrong I wouldn't turn these guys away for the right price but it's not the end of the world if we don't get them either. The main priority this off-season was to get Vinet at 26, Hogan in the mini draft and load up on midfielders with the rest of our picks. It seems like that's what is happening so I couldn't give a stuff if Wellingham or Caddy don't want a bar of us.

Yes there is a problem with us being able to attract players. No it has nothing to do with Neeld, "buy-in", attractiveness of our game plan, difficulty of our training sessions. I'll give you a hint. It has to do with no finals since 2006, 16th in 2012 and a perception that we are still a few years off playing finals let alone ever challenging for a flag. If you had a choice would you rather go to Port Adelaide or Adelaide? Bulldogs or Geelong? These guys have no allegiance to MFC so a choice between us and North, Geelong, WCE or Freo is a pretty easy choice for them to make. Despite this I am hoping that this time next year will be a different story. Exactly.

Happy with this - wouldn't even mind Dawes/Wellingham if it came down to it but not for pick 4.

1. GWS woudln't want pick 45 they're probably done by then. 2. Getting Viney at 26 is one of the "wins" we get from the MD trade.

TWR just said can't use pick 4 for MD because it's a compo pick but this would almost certainly have to be wrong. Can't use it for FS but why would there be any restrictions on trades? Particularly since there's been rumours of Dogs using their compo pick (pick 6).

You don't think there's a possibility these two things could be related?

Hopefully if we pick up Hogan we will offload Cook for a 2nd/3rd round pick. I do get where you're coming from but Hogan seems a different prospect to those two.

I wish that were true. Considering we've had only a couple of really good forwards over my time following the Demons (since 1987) I think they're a bit harder to come by than you suggest. Decent forwards in my time; - Bennett - Jakovich - Lyon - Schwarz - Neitz - Clark The only one to have a lasting impacting up forward was Neitz. That is one consistently good, big forward since 1987. I think they're a bit harder to come by than you make out.

Not if they want both Grundy & Toumpas.

It's in The Age in the Viney article.

Still rumour.

So you saw a 2nd year player with only 25 games experience playing in the 17th side twice on TV and once in the flesh and are prepared to write him off completely as ever being able to be a decent player in the future? I am assuming one of those games you watched on TV was not the game against the Cats?

Yeah the only reason I could see us giving pick 3 instead of 4 - GWS would rather pick 3 than picks 5 & 6 but would probably rather take picks 5 & 6 than pick 4. If we can get Hogan though I don't care - another midfielder with picks 4 & 13 (possibly Caddy) I think will do well to settle our forward line and add midfield class and depth. The only way we could **** this up is if we did something stupid like trade pick 4 for Dawes & Wellingham. EDIT: Getting Hogan or Dawes you would think would see us trying to offload Cook to someone as well - don't know what we'd get for him, a 3rd round pick?

Ahh OK that makes more sense, thought Demonland had gone crazy...

How the **** has this got to 108 pages??? I gave up at 23 pages this morning it was around 43 pages now it's at 108??? I don't even want to imagine how much back and forth there has been over something that is a non-issue. Crazy way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

Jesus Christ....

Agile, speedy, athletic, big - only one problem, he's not a very good footballer.

I disagree - floating pick 4 for Wellingham/Dawes then accepting pick 13 for Dawes is still a massive win for the Pies. It's that old politics trick of wanting a tax rise of 5% and floating a hike of 10% so when you sting the rubes for the 5% you wanted anyway they think they've won.

No that is completely and utterly incorrect. It goes like this; GC nominate Viney We take him with pick 3 F/S nominations close Trade week begins We offer pick 4 for mini draft pick to GWS The two have nothing to do with each other.

If we give up pick 4 for these two I will not renew my membership and will not go to another game until we start winning and playing consistently. I have been a member for 24 years but could not hack giving up pick 4 for these two especially when one of them has made it clear he doesn't want anything to do with us. I would much rather wait another year and get Hogan into the side than go for the short term approach and get these two B/C-graders in.

Exactly. Having a good culture doesn't guarantee success. But you would be hard-pressed to find a successful club that doesn't have a good culture. Even the WCE teams of 05-06 may not have had the best off-field culture but that doesn't mean they didn't have a dedicated culture on the track and on the field. Ben Cousins used drugs but also left nothing on the field and pushed himself to the point of exhaustion and physical sickness just to make sure his team was successful.

Yes but the point I was making is that it's easier to show faith in players when they already have the runs on the board and in this case not just a few runs but a couple of centuries. I was comparing this to some former MFC players (particularly under Daniher) who coasted along on reputation when based on their history they had no right to as they constantly wilted in big games when the pressure was on.

Are you being purposefully obtuse or do you just fail in basic comprehension?