Adam The God

Yeah, you're talking AFL level traits, and clearly that's true. But Oliver has shown over 8 years, elite AFL. Not just AFL level traits. He has been there, done that. He has won 1 (2?) AFLCA awards, an award far more prestigious than the Brownlow. He won a BnF in a flag year. He's been a multiple AA. Reid has not played a single AFL game yet. Someone earlier in the thread rightly said he could well turn out to be another Rowell, or, which is rhe lottery in draft picks, he could turn out to be the next Dusty, with a more rounded game than Clarry. But you can't say that now and expect people to agree with you. You need to actually see it. How many top draft picks have been heralded as the next best thing. At the end of the day, drafting is a lottery.

Think about West Coast and Ben Cousins. They got a premiership with him, but their culture was a disaster and they never managed to win another. If Clarry threatens the culture, and we are not best placed to analyse this, the club is, then he has to go.

Well, let's go back to 2022 then. Geelong also won it without an elite midfield IMV. I agree with your last point about future success, but we can't answer that yet.

Your obsession with untried 18 year olds is ridiculous. You were one of the posters last year claiming this draft would be a super draft when most were saying that's the rhetoric every year. You also loved Weideman at draft time. You love potential, not actual proven elite AFL talent. To say Reid has a more rounded game than Oliver when he's never played an AFL game is frankly laughable. Having said that, in the long run, we may well be better off trading out Clarry and in Reid. But FMD, Reid's game is more rounded 🤦

I don't think it's about being seduced by picks this time mate. It's about maintaining the culture that the club has tried so hard to foster, and maximising what is a dreadfully sorry and sad situation. Clarry is my favourite player, I'm devastated. But we've got the picks this year to work a deal that could rejuvenate our list. The other thing not being talked about is the potential dramatic impact not having Clarry in our midfield will have on our game style. Collingwood have shown you don't need an elite midfield to win a flag. They've bucked the trend in that regard. I trust JT, Lamb and the broader club to do what's right for the MFC here. As gut wrenching as that is. I suspect many of us are so strongly bonded to Clarry because we waited so long for an elite midfielder and then we got him, he helped us win a flag and now here we are...

Welcome Mini. Have a feeling it's a really good get. Our first CGS student as an MFC coach too.

I'd be wanting top 5 picks just to start the convo. You build a midfield around Clarry.

Chook has arrived. 👌 Anything else for us, @Chook in Perth? Please and thank you.

Petty won't be going. We love him. And rightly so.

Yep, and I reckon the Carlton FD and MC worked out in the second half of 2023 that they played better without him and with the speed of the modern game, found he was a bit of a liability if he wasn't kicking goals and taking marks.

In many respects, Lobb is the perfect ruck/forward to add to our list this stage. He's not the guy that's going to take over from Gawn, that'll be a fella by the name of Sean Darcy in 2025 or so ( 😉 ), but he is perfect for the time being.

You just need Lobb to provide reasonable back up ruck work and then an ability better than Gawn or Grundy to play forward and it's a win. He could absolutely nail both roles.

McKay, JVR and Lobb forward, Petty back. It's aggressive, but I like it if true.

Me too, in that he is deadset useless when the ball hits the ground and if he's not marking it, he's a bit of a liability in general. However, Petty and McKay would be bloody hard to play against, particularly if we got the balance right at ground level. I'd prefer others before McKay, but ultimately wouldn't say no to his marking and his scoring power.

@Engorged Onion, would you mind putting your hand up for one of our psych positions at the MFC? Then we can get early tidbits in these threads. 😜

It's only a matter of time before we get a riddle... 🤣

I agree we need to keep replenishing our elite talent, and I also agree thst Max isn't just any old ruckman. But you take Max out of the game and it means we have to play differently. Perhaps it means less long bombs to the wing? Sometimes being without makes you better and more unpredictable.

Sure, but we can cover him. Particularly, if he's no longer the Max of old.

I really don't think our window is tied to Max or even May for that matter. At the moment, IMO, our success hinges on Oliver, Petracca, Lever and Petty. May is important for 2024, but beyond that, I hope we can draft O'Sullivan this year and make do defensively, while improving our forward half.

You're kidding, right? Who the [censored] is number 13?

I think it's our set up and our cattle. We're better playing territory, forward half game, but still, we averaged 50+ points from turnover this year, so we were able to slingshot fine.

Easily.

Thanks mate. 👍

Yeah, they definitely take the game on. Their midfield cattle isn't great at winning contests, but N Daicos, if allowed to run from one end to the other and connect their play, has the ability to hit targets that open up the game. He's not the only Collingwood player that is an elite kick, but their better cattle for score generation is elite kicking. Our elite players for score generation tend to be our contested players who aren't elite kicks, but win contest after contest. A good system should play to the strengths of the list. But it always comes back to defence in big finals. I'd also love an NGA prospect like Quaynor. He's an out and out star. I recall him being beaten once by Cameron yesterday that led to that goal, but otherwise he and their defenders rarely lose contests behind the ball. He certainly doesn't. I'm certainly guilty of underrating their defenders and their capability to win crucial 1v1s.

They were so offensively minded, they won a GF by kicking 12 goals. Their ability to stay in games, particularly in the finals series, hinged on their ability to defend. Not their ability to attack. They managed 9 goals, 8 goals and 12 goals. What an offensive master-class! They won the flag due to their defence...