Ungarie boy

Only as a Rookie, it puts more onus on him to do a Jetta and achieve the standard required for a spot on the primary list.

or get him to Casey, and tell him it's a trial for a contract the following year!!!

Not sure about Norm Smith approach, but a simple underlying basic principle has always existed in football ......

'you have to get the ball before you can use the ball' 

Okay some perspective on trade value, it would seem:

* Multiple all Australian players still in there prime = 2 first rounders, at least one pre-teen
* Likely multiple all Australian players approaching their prime * 2 first rounders
* All Australian - 1 first rounder
* Club top 5 player - mid first rounder 
* regular top 10 player - late first rounder
* Walkup starting 18 - early second rounder
* starting 22 player - second rounder
* fringe 22 player - late second round / third round rounder
* ressie player with AFL gametime - third rounder
* Ressie player with potential - late third rounder
* Approaching retirement leadership player - fourth round rounder
* Career resurrection player - packet of chips
* Risk players - peanuts

Of course this is a generalisation as injury, game role (key position, ruck, outside/inside,), team requirements, age, etc,  can all shift things a little; but as a guide where would Watts fit in.
Also note the guide is based on current years form, with previous years normally only taken into account when injury, trauma, etc need to be considered.

Well at the end of this season you could not honestly state that Watts was a walkup starting 18 player; so that's a starting point.  Add to this his current career trajectory which has flatlined (or started going the other way); the question then gets asked how many more years are likely left in him at his best output (this would probably at best equal a "walkup starting 18 player")

Now like others I don't like getting pick 31.  As I feel, believe and even think that he is a better player; but  the reality is he is not, he might be, but history also suggest he will not be.  I also know, like Travis Johnstone at Brisbane,  he will win Port some games, and be applauded; but in all likelihood finish his onfield career in a similar pattern. I hope not, as I want to see him succeed; even if it is at Port.

Still on analysis, the reality is 31 is not wide of the mark!!!!  

A question that is not being asked though, is why after8 years of averageness; he got such a good contact.

P.s Don't judge him and this trade on his silky skills, charisma and "what could be"; Other clubs have not.  Judge this on where he currently is at,and what he has demonstrated - again it is what other clubs are doing.  This will help understand and possibly placate the trade outcome.

Could this be more about positioning ourselves to retain much of our future stars beyond next season, who will all be looking for substantial pay increases.  What if his current contract is backloaded and years 2 and 3 could be become a millstone. What if bringing 3 kids in this year on minimum wages buys us some time to build a war chest for beyond this season.

The way this has played out, it feels a little about setting standards and a lot about salary cap positioning.

This reeks of him wanting the bumbers only, and is manipulating the trade situation to them being the only suitor - making it harder for the Bulldongs to negotiate from a position of strength (and likely forcing them to take Dodo's weaker offer)!

What the Bulldogs experienced and the Tigers will experience is the significantly more difficult draw that is given to the top 4 teams, but in particular the premiers.  They also go from slipping under the radar of other teams, to being the "hunted".  Their game style will be analysed to death over the summer (more-so than other teams), with at least one club working them out.  Pressure of expectations also comes into play. Lastly when all these things are taking an affect; comes the flow-on effect with an increase in injuries or fatigue (drop in form).   So I expect the pattern to continue, ninth seems about right!

Conversely teams like GWS, Sydney and Adelaide who all performed strongly with tough draws can be expected to continue to be there.  Watch for Hawthorn who in theory should have a lot better draw, while possessing a coach who can beat the "premiership trend" rather than follow it.

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Sounds like you will be a GW$ Member soon

Do enjoy the plastic club

That won't happen.  Red and Blue through and through.

Though I know many who are taking out GWS membership, as it pretty much guarantees a Grand Final ticket should GWS make it - as when ballots are held for the two grand final team members, they have about a 99 in 100 chance of getting selected!

My boy was involved in the GWS academy this year and consequently I have had a lot more exposure to them.  I'll be cheering loudly for them now, for they have done more for the Canberra and Southern NSW region in the last couple of years than the AFL and all other fly by clubs (North, Sydney, Dee's) put together.  If this then equates to more AFL players in the region, meaning more teams, stronger competitions and then greater opportunity for our kids (hopefully my youngest would benefit from all this) to develop, then that's an even better reason.  Being  involved in coaching and I can categorically state it is so much more difficult for talented players in the Canberra/NSW Region (excluding Murray) to make it - for you don't develop the necessary AFL skills my beating up on consistently weaker opponents.

As to the money, well the AFL will only find another way to spend it. Probably by help building a summer training centre for the Magpies; or maybe taking over the Netball competition; or maybe giving it to the clubs who will promptly spend it all on one elite player, another dozen coaches and (for some) a suspect medical program harvesting cows!!!!

Besides seeing the tigers get there with there easy draw, or having any team coached by a  Scott being involved; is more gut churdling than Coke mixed with 10 day old milk that has been left in the Queensland sun on a fly infested pig farm.

Actually Jack Watts would probably suit Adelaide expansive, hard running open forward line!  If I was them getting Watts, Gibbs and a draft pick into the team for the expense of lever (plus change) may be quite appealing.  Especially if they have a young KPB developing (as rumoured) or a tall forward who could go back.  If I was them I would be sounding out Port's Trengove or Carlton's Jones as cheap insurance.  They could actually  could do very well out of this trade period.

and the Lever article is just PR spin to position themselves (Adelaide) into a strong starting negotiating position - Unlike Gibbs last year,  Lever is uncontracted  and can force (well at least bend) the Crows hand.

Ffs the sense of entitlement on here is sickening; expecting apologies, ruthleness, compensation because as a supporter things didnt go your way. Note nor did it for over half the comps teams. Be dissapointed, be sad, but be realistic; injuries, a bad umpiring decision, an inexperienced decision, an unlucky bounce, fixturing inexuities, flu, any little innocuous moment was the one little thing that contributed to the very minor petcentage difference and consquent happiness of finals. If just one of theses things went a little more in our favour then all this teeth gnashing and wrist slashing wouldn't exist (well at least not for this week, some people would still go down this path even if it was after a gallant but failed effort in the last week of September.

Yep I think she has just about nailed it, though 3 talls in the forward line does not reflect modern trend (particularly pressure), so Daniher should be shifted to the bench, where someone like Fantasia would probably find a spot in the pocket at the expense of Sloane!

Though for me I would go with Dangerfield or Martin in the pocket (they would be very quickly rotated into the midfield as needed) and start with Kennedy or Sloane in the middle. Daniher from the bench also provides ruck relief. The one potential weakness in both lineups would be an injury to a tall back, so in reflection I would drop Kennedy, shift Daniher to Full Forward and bring in someone like McGovern.  Noting Ryder can also play forward.

For those looking for more positives, it's still a strong Adelaide side who are also a high scoring team, and with a possible low intensity contest likely, then this could equate to a high scoring game meaning the Eagles need to win by more

On ‎26‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 5:50 AM, Copuchas said:

Hey @Ungarieboy only three out of the selected Crows side so far!   But there's no way they're flirting with form against WCE right?

Geez talk about mfcss, Adelaide do not want to go into a final series with two losses in row (particularly to fellow final contenders); and will play accordingly, with winning their primary focus. Come finals confidence is a huge advantage. 

Though of course if there are a couple of players that have niggling injuries or in need freshening up for the finals campaign well yes they will do it.  We likely did it with Viney, and in an ironic twist Watts (giving him a run to blow out the cobwebs) and no-one here was screaming conspiracy theories. Even to the point of running some depth players through the team in a leadup to the final series to allow them to slot in when the inevitable injuries occur (again think what we have done with Stretch, Maynard, Wagner, etc)

but to put it bluntly, if you want to persist with this frame of thought (managing a result specifically to exclude the Dee's from the finals), then meeting a Melbourne team (that struggled to beat the wooden spooners, and in reality was never in the contest against the Pies) would probably be your preferred finals opponent.

Unfortunately the way we are playing at the moment means we are not even on the radar of other teams.  

Again we may be at the mercy of Adelaide loosing to the Eagles (who will probably play with the most venom they have all year), but it is not because they want to loose. 

Actually a few fringe players in the crows side may help us, as they will be desperate to win a finals spot, while the regulars are more likely to go through the motions (lacking intensity) which would be far more damaging to their chances of winning.  

For the record we blew our finals chance when we allowed Brisbane to come back from 5+ goals, and of course not beating Collingwood just confirmed we don't deserve it (though ironically nor do the eagles, saints, or dogs)

If you want to persist with conspiracy theories, then here's one: The crows will do what they can to manufacture a loss, not because the fear meeting the Dee's in the finals, but because they don't want to see a bottom 8 side gaining a huge confidence boost (and easy path) beating up on an insipid 8th place Demons.

Reality is we lost; and now will likely suffer the consequences because, we lost

Go the Crows, 

or even more satisfying Go the Dockers!!!!

Depending on distance but in general Jordan Lewis

Salem is a good option. Note "on the run" is not an option, as its after the siren!!!

5 minutes ago, Copuchas said:

Perhaps.  But the other scenario is they throw the game because they'd prefer to have West Coast (who can't get a home final under any scenario) in the 8 instead of the Dees.  And remember, it is the last game of round 23 so all the permutations of week 1 finals match-ups (and beyond) will be known.

So I reiterate, we need to beat the Lions and the Pies

1 game in 3 weeks for your best players leading into a prelim courtesy of throwing a game (and introducing bad habits to do so) just to manoeuvre a perceived weaker team into the 8, who in all likelihood, won't last long enough to meet them. Not going to happen.

In fact it would be in their interests to have a combative Melbourne in the bottom half of the 8 so that the Crows other potential rivals will have to survive a real contested final game(s) (and with associated injuries, soreness, etc, likely to come with it) and not have an easy path through the finals.  

For similar reasons Sydney finishing 5-8 also suits the top teams (noting that they will be in the 8).   

14 hours ago, Copuchas said:

I think you're overlooking that Adelaide may well have nothing to play for in Round 23 and might take half a team to Perth.

Very, Very unlikely to happen since the bye afterwards and then a win, would equate to these players only playing 1 game in 3 weeks leading up to a Prelim final!!!!  No coach would be happy with that

Its not the ins, but the outs

10 hours ago, dpositive said:

I also watch Watts when at the game and disagree.

He always runs to a somewhere and usually this is a space where he then has time and most importantly balance to distribute the ball. He often does this at pace and does not avoid a contact if an opponent also gets to that space. He perhaps does not run to contests but rather runs to where the action will be.

That he is often ignored by his teammates or that they do not have the skill or often time to deliver it to him is a significant factor in his performance.

I don't bElieve  he ever plays without intent. But perhaps some with less ability do not know what that intention is or was. I used to see Watts get the ball and instinctively go to give it off but in that time their was never any teammate with the ability to be where he thought they should be. I see that improving and the structures and playing complement has improved. We still have some way to go but there have been matches this year when Watts has been sublime, not due to his efforts but due to those around him using him or the space he created.

Watts is often maligned as being non competitive but you do not create as many goals as he does without being at the contest. He cannot be at every contest but the more his teammates put him in the better he and the team go.

Note I'm not potting Watt's, just commenting on what I observed and I agree that when he's in the contest he doesn't shirk it (though he could improve his tackling technique to stick them better).  And yes he does a lot of running and often it is at pace, but on the weekend it was mostly done at three quarter pace.  It may be a team role to run to space all the time, but note while he is doing this then the opposition will normally have an extra number at the contest (which they use to win the ball and then run away / break the lines with).  

Also running to space is even more effective when done from a contest and not existing space (not the spread from congestion, but the long 70-100 metre runs to get on the end of a chain of possessions) as it first maintains the advantage of numbers at the contest, burns unfit opponents who get caught out wasting a lot of energy fruitlessly chasing, and disrupts opponents own set plays and defensive structures as they need to be reactive to this free-wheeling running  ...... But ...... it is no good running to the wrong space (requiring a difficult pass, often high risk, under pressure, through congestion; or to non dangerous areas where the defence can bottle up the next kick - in this circumstance they will let you run all day with a token effort of making you accountable) and most importantly when not used SPRINTING to and into the actual contest (running with intent is figurative).

Also if a player is to smart for his teammates and is passing (kicking/handballing) the ball where he believes they are supposed to be but are not; then this in reality is "not smart"!  This can be extrapolated to giving it off to players who are in a supposed better position for opening up the game, but in reality actually covered by the opposition - which a lot of our players are guilty off.  

As for teammates not being where they are supposed to be, well this can and often will be an effect of the opposition play; a simple bump, shepherd, extra player blocking space, etc (unfortunately they do have an effect on the game, otherwise it's called training).   Great players consistently find the best option of the available options; not what is supposed to be the best option when all the stars align.

Lastly running to where you want the ball to be, not to where it will be ....  is lazy.  

I'm not saying Watt's is guilty of all this (I'm not into criticising players)  just responding to a couple of points.  Watts does play many good games, but this was not one of them; and my original observation is in my opinion part of what contributed to this; as to was the gale force conditions and a game style that did not suit the conditions (and his role).

I havn't read all this thread but watching the game live, I did make an effort to watch Watts as noting the way the game was going, I expected he may be an outlet of criticism for some fans.  From what I could see he was guilty of what I tell my older kids as "running everywhere but being nowhere" which is essentially a lot of three quarter pace running in open space (often running from space to space), and yes it does require a lot of effort and gut running; unfortunately it rarely impacts the contest.  What I try to teach older kids is "running with intent" which requires a lot of sprinting to get to the actual contest and importantly involved in the contest (at pace) or failing this sprinting to where the next actual contest is going to be - not space where anticipating an easy kick (from teammate or opposition).  This running with intent also then flows through to spread.  On Saturday I did not notice Watts run with intent!!!!!

Note this is not to say he doesn't in other games, or perhaps he is even instructed to play this way; it's just what I observed.

Posted 42 minutes ago

From watching the game in tbe freezing cold:

Omac

Gawn

Jetta

Lewis 

ANB

Tmac

Goodwin just confirmed he will be playing this weekend through the midfield (on Fox)

11 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Forget about the falling over under pressure, kicks off the ground to avoid picking the ball up, fumbles, yelling at team mates going harder at the ball than him and dodgy hospital disposals.

What position does everyone expect him to play?

Loose man back seems to be his best spot, but we can't carry a player just for that role unless there's a predicted breeze.

He's yet to play half forward at the Dees. I'd like to try it but now isn't the time to be trying a new position.

Half back - against the likes of Deledio and Dev Smith (both too quick) or maybe Stevie J (too skilled a forward).

Wing - against Scully and Whitfield - both running machines who do huge km's at speed, that won't end well, they'll over lap off him all game.

On ball - against Kelly, Shiel, Coniglio and Ward - all 4 are running machines and strong contested ball players, plus the first 2 especially have great pace. I can't see him sticking with them.

Lewis has been and will be of tremendous value to us but I just can't see a role for him against the Giants. Most sides have weak spots that will let us blend him in on ball, wing, half back and spare defender, but I just don't think the Giants are like that. Goodwin backs in his style and system against most sides which is fair enough but I think a lot of beating the Giants is having the run to go with them. If we let them charge forward as they like to do the result won't go our way.

Stevie J is no longer the "skilled forward" to be feared and is often a liability for GWS (no pressure, selfish, slow, and can be fumbly), Lewis would do well on him, Hunt/Hibberd would get leather poisoning. Lewis can also easily cope with De Boer / Perryman.  

Kingston is the best option to stay, with a couple of pubs, many restaurants/cafes and a short walk to the oval or Manuka (more dining/drinking venues - perhaps a little more upmarket) and the oval.  Accommodation here though is predominately apartments and my travel agency is now finding it harder to meet demand for Saturday night.

The other option nearby (walking distance) is Barton where there are some quality hotels with very good onsite restaurants.  This is probably a 20-30 min walk to Kingston/Manuka (note the oval is on the way).  Barton though is quiet, with little night life.     

Hi all, I own a travel agency here in Canberra and am happy to arrange "cost price" accommodation and transport for any Dee supporters making the trip.   Be good to have a Demon presence here.   Just PM me.

Note: it will be cold!!!!