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All the best Nev and thanks for your first class service over the years.

He looks like he is about to be hit by a train, or Buffy is around the corner.

Nah.

That's one interpretation I guess...

Yes, it's an old design but I think he did well to incorporate it. I also think a version using the 90s demon (from your avatar) would be interesting to see. That was easily my choice of the modern logos.

Some variations created by 'The Count' on BF, incorporating the 70s demon to the new logo...

I'm not fussed either way.

However, if they were hell bent on changing it I see a subtle opportunity by replacing, "it's the emblem for me and for you" with "it's the emblem for you and for me" then following it up with something like (purely an example) "it's the emblem of the team we love, the team of the old MFC".

Yes, I know, this is potentially cringeworthy to some but remember we have just moulded our new logo around the MFC monogram.

Anyway, this is just thinking out aloud. If they do change it I hope it is as subtle as possible otherwise leave it alone.

Got nothing to do with "fast, attack-based game plans". We can't hit a target by hand or foot to save ourselves, so you can have the greatest attack minded game plan in history but if you can't hit targets, you can't move the bloody ball, fast or slow! Our game plan was fine against GC, Geelong, WB and Collingwood, because our skills and decision making were decent. Why does Hawthorn's game plan look so good? Because they make the correct decision, run to the right places to help the ball carrier, and they HIT TARGETS!!

There's more to it than that. Yes, our skills are deplorable but we don't play the percentages.

Our players get in each other's way, we don't kick to space, we don't have any discernible team rules up forward, players are always hesitating what to do. We have no fluency or understanding between players. We don't know how to efficiently chain and carry the football. We don't instinctively run to the right spots to give the ball carrier the best option. Whilst you've commented on these facets I think you underestimate how reliant a lot of them are on the game plan.

Our skills are so deplorable though that we tend to have an either/or debate on this. It is a case of compounding problems. How our skills could be this bad though beggars belief. It boils down to how they train.

Add to that that we look sluggish more often than not and our match day fitness and conditioning also has to be looked at.

It's more likely to go backwards than upwards at this stage.

It goes beyond terrible commentary. The guy's an absolute oxygen thief.

We won.

I am happy.

Traffic lights? lol

If electronic communication is allowed by the AFL then a led time board similar to those used in the Premier League by refs is the most simple.

It was a total process breakdown, really. From what I've pieced together from the Vince and Roos interviews, both the players and the coaches took the view that the players have responsibility for driving that kind of tactic, but:

- Vince said the players overestimated how long was left

- Roos' choice of words for taking responsibility was "we (coaches) couldn't get it done" - suggests they were trying to get the message through

- Miller (the runner) was stuck on the ground giving out "other messages". After the goal, by the time someone gets his attention to relay the new message, play will have resumed and it will be too late

So the players stuffed up: didn't set up correctly, the coaches stuffed up: left in a position where they couldn't communicate with the players and the runner stuffed up: not left in a position to relay messages at a crucial time. One thing I've learned in my line of business is that most major catastrophes occur when errors "cascade", i.e. one leads to another several times over, and that's definitely the case here. Whoever is in charge (Roos, I guess) needs to make sure systems are in place so this never happens again.

I think this is very well summed up. Those "other messages" are the crux for me though and more of the learning from this instance needs to be off the ground than on, as poor as the players were. The players will learn because they feel it the most but it should never have come down to a coach screaming with 40s to go to virtually an empty phone.

Simple procedures, simple 2 minute warning. Miller running around giving general messages with 2 minutes to go had a dire consequence.

I dare say if a club tried to introduce an electronic time board like the ones used by refs in the premier league the AFL would outlaw it.

Gullible?

This whole "they didn't know how much time was left" is just some spin cooked up to protect the players. Roos didn't even mention it in the press conference, even though he was specifically asked about the final moments. It's something that came out later on.

It saves people asking why Nathan Jones wasn't in the centre for that last ballup, or why the leaders (cough cough) didn't organise the players to get behind the ball etc. etc.

Roos (and the club) is just covering for his team - well, in public anyway, but the players know that they stuffed up.

Everyone knew how much time was left, including the players on the field - it's partly why there was so much celebrating after Howe's goal - with under a minute to go, they thought they'd won it. Roos was screaming into the phone to get them back ... even if the runner wasn't around, the bench was close enough to communicate with the players onfield.

Hard lesson, but the players won't let that happen again. Hopefully.

I genuinely believe Bernie Vince when he said he thought they had more time. He could have just said we didn't man up or get numbers back and that would be the end of it. He didn't look impressed either when interviewed. Just one player but still.

This notion that Roosy took one for the team to protect them only reinforces how soft they are if anything. After he had a chance to speak with some of these guys he may have realised the stuff up. Unfortunately [censored] happens.

Mind you the fact that we lost the final centre bounce is on the players regardless of their time perception.

Can you imagine if we made the same error in a final?

Well at least thats one thing we will never need to worry about

I'm in my 30s.

Not Roosy's fault. He was yelling down the phone to get guys back.

Footy 101: four points up with 40 secs left... flood the backline.

Dumb footballers, lack of leadership on field.

To wait until 40s to go to get the message across of remaining time is unforgivable. The players should have known with at least two minutes to go of the remaining time. Massive [censored] up by Roos/assistants/runner.

This loss is like an episode of "Seconds From Disaster".

The problem wasn't that with 30 or 40 seconds (after Howe's goal) to go the message didn't make it to the players to get numbers back

The [censored] up came long before that. With 2 minutes to go the runner should have been telling every player so they had an idea. Surely they would have been smart enough to get numbers back on their own accord if they knew how much time was left. For Vince to say we thought there were a few more minutes when the Saints players knew exactly what the situation was beggars belief.

They left the message way too late. The moment the runner went out with a few minutes to go and told them every kind of useless crap other than what they needed to know was the moment we lost this.

There were multiple opportunities offered when Melbourne players looked up from half back, desperate for an option.

And there was Watts, jogging slowly in small circles. Making an art form of always being just slightly too close or slightly too far away.

Spot on.

He's so slow in reading the play and getting to position. The amount of times he's just a split second too late to lay that tackle before an opponent handballs/kicks is astounding.

He has NFI how to make an impact in games or exert himself in the play and even do the simple things at contests.

Try getting into form as a HFF with 39 Inside 50s...

Most of which were headed to the more dangerous Hogan.

The thread that we should all be in is "Melbourne's Midfield Sucks"...

Andrew "Coxy" Cox - Melbourne

My impression is that most teams are now concentrating on fast ball movement to break zoning and the press and that this started in the middle of last year. Teams such as Richmond and Carlton who had shocking first half years in 2014 improved dramatically when they started to move the ball quicker. Brisbane punched above their weight last year to the surprise of many and they relied on fast ball movement.

The most disappointing feature of our play this preseason has been the lack of any dare. We stop, look, hesitate, kick backwards and allow the opposition to zone back and make scoring difficult. So far I'd have to say that Roos has failed to teach us to kick goals even with Hogan and Garlett added to our attack.

One of the questions is "can Roos teach a team how to kick goals". I wondered from the day he was employed. I wondered if his time out of the game had left him behind. We'll find out this year.

Roos has stated that we need to learn to attack more and conceded we probably over did the defensive side of things last year (ie went for too long in the season) but I agree with many of your points. My main concern with our style of play on top of your observations is the amount of energy we use up in switching and maintaining possesion in the back half. Last year there were games where we ran ourselves ragged by half time.

We need to improve our scoreboard return for the amount of effort we put in. All opposition teams have to do is zone and wait for a disposal error and if we don't turn it over we spend more energy in cleaning up the mess.

We have a whole season ahead of us so I'm not going to predict how it will pan out at this stage but we need a fundamental shift IMO in the way we play or we're just going to defeat ourselves in most games. I want simpler and more direct football and I think the players need that as well - time will tell.

Barrett casting aspersions. If H returned positive then why enquire? He'd find out anyway unless he was querying a further hypothetical strike but it all appears to be an imperial beat up.

Club knocked it on the head which is the main thing.

Not a good look for a club CEO to comment on the operations of other clubs in this manner I think.

WCE has a pretty different set up to nearly every other club which (in tandem with their football market for 2 clubs) makes footy life a whole lot easier.

I think this promotion from the WCE website puts things into perspective:

http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/inspire/terms-conditions

"1. The promoter is Indian Pacific Limited (trading as West Coast Eagles Football Club)" lol

Indian Pacific now wholely owned by WAFC which owns licenses of Eagles and Dockers.

I'm not saying that the bad portion of increasing club debt isn't important to tackle but to accuse other clubs of being delusional and undisciplined is pretty cheap coming from the Ivory tower of the west.

Peter Jackson said it best the other night that the only thing which will get us where we want to be is hard work. PJ has put his head down as have many others at the club and we're slowly getting there. We have the right people FFS. We don't need this.

Bartlett needs to get a grip.

What's the final date that we'll know for sure whether these pricks do time or not?

At the moment we have delisted 2(Nicho and Clisby) and lost Frawley.

We have picked up 2 (Stretch and Garlett).

Clark and Lamumba will cancel itsrlf out so essentially we only have room for 1 more on our list which at this rate will go to Jetta.

We will delist another 2-3 before the draft I would say

Byrnes retired as well.

Currently there are 2 spots available before upgrading Jetta.

It my understanding that his behaviour towards the MFC team in one particular game is now used as a teaching aid on how not to behave towards AFL teams.

Can you elaborate a little on the specifics?

This sooking is coming from the guy who wanted to bring a live lion on the ground before games.

Good to see he is switched on the with the things that will take Brisbane forward.