beelzebub

Arguably the post of the year @praha Ah.. footy, it's a passion, for some a fashion, whilst others just give you a lashin'

Do it for Australia 11... I don't really care...but do it

Out qualifies the blokes then !! ?

Yep...that Kit E Kat is on the menu... Not tasty..not really... but hey

You're right....NO 8th v 5th 7th v 6th

Morning Eddie

If said star is effectively incapable of delivering on that STAR ability....what is the value ??"Stars" arent untouchable I very much doubt this is the end of this story. Cheers

hence my questioning ...if in the middle he'll naturally play inside...wings are essentially an outside role which Ive never noted Jack to do ..( thats no criticism, just observation ) it just would concern me that he'd gravitate to the guts...and maybe overload.

just as a sidebar...im not really inclined to believe anything from Ross He's probably shocked his side are shizen too ( we're not though )

they are a very different 50 and 50 though. I still much prefer whatever Spargo brings to the game..thats my preference I acknowledge a very good question LH...where does Viney play.....or at least....start

This is a question of curiosity. Why are so many prepared to put the player...before the club ?? Thats not to disrespect or dismiss the worth of anyone...but clubs win games/win premierships.. So says the great North Smith..and he knew a thing or two. Maybe we listen to his words a bit more and the curse might lift ?? Im not the only one here suggesting a balanced reappraisal of his worth/position to Melb is warranted. These are professional footballers who whilst playing for a jumper are actually incredibly well remunerated. He was brought in as the classic messiah /silver bullet type draft. Getting him will fix everything. He's but one player. At times very good, at others woeful in attitude. There may well be reasons for that but just like fitness..you cross that line you better be focused....or go sort life out. Thats not said in nastiness...just maybe what some need to do..Other players have. He struggles against better sides.. Arguably isnt helped by some coaching/selection but what is..is. If he get nullified in games where his real footy ability would be real handy..what value that ?? Im not opposed to playing him down back @binman will recall we discussed this exact notion in other thread only to be howled down by those ...you know...know it alls!! I dont think he's ideal as a mid either...smart yes...slow to react at times.. that burns play. Hes a very talented footballer...i just dont know what his position is now at Melbourne. Too many better coaches have figured him out. Ours needs to too and quickly .

The notion of depth caters to a requirement of a 'tomorrow' etc.. Its a little like a bird in the hand ,..two in bush etc.. You are always better off with Someone who can...as opposed someone who might... Jesse might make a Mid...others already ARE. Im a bit over everything is for down the track.. we are actually in the here and now. We need to play that way...imho

Where were Judd...and Buddy ?? Its horses for courses etc

Thanks 000 Interesting to see them opening up the contested space a bit. Absolutely necessary. Good stuff...good report. Cheers

It's a business. Get used to it. My concern ... and interest is winning... Winning a flag. Having a competitive team. I really couldn't care less who's in it. It's actually irrelevant ( to me ) . It's about a team.

There are established kids who bring more to the game. That's the point.

How bout we simply get a mid ,or two, that knows what to do ?

The impact to his possible market value is of course real. I personally don't think that would figure largely in the case of his likely suitor(s). The notion of him being traded, or simply going home is as old as his AFL career. I.e..not all that sudden an idea.

Funny ... in a fashion, in this thread some sanity prevails and a reasonable discussion of the good/bad/ otherwise of Hogan even allows the floating of the idea he play HB. Elsewhere it's lampooned. I never quite got that. Tmac was a fwd when younger. Indeed when drafted ( iirc) it was to play fwd. For whatever reason that didn't last long and he played down back ... until the clever idea of moving him forward. Hogan was a back. Might explain his god awful approach in kicking So why would you not think it a possibility to play him there. But ... he was brought here ( Dees ) to kick goals. His effectiveness is severely reduced against decent opposition who have worked out how to nueter him. Net result those games ... not a lot really. Games against less capable opposition he can/not-always have a day out. Could be argued that anyone could kick those goals. So is Hogan of any profound use only then ? This is where some, and I agree, think that Hogan's value to us may be best realised ... not playing for us. Many folk are now simply trying to find where to put him. For mine it's the trade table. Not because I don't think he can play. He can. I just don't think he's the 'result' we were all hoping for.

Meanwhile back at the ranch... I noted an article ( behind paywall...but quickly read at cafe ) ..Jay Clark HS ..other day writing along lines some here ( myself included ) suggest as to are we better/ worse ..with or without Jesse and what is his actual value...is ..as player...or tradable asset ? Almost like he read this thread ?? I still think it's a valid question deserving of more than dismissive rhetoric. Is he necessary to a flag ? I don't think as much as what his worth might get in some A mid(s) etc.

I'd love to know how they actually determine those numbers. Criteria ? Sample etc. Ouija board ?

Depends what you're supporting. And then there's the classic divide really. Is the glass half full...or half empty ? It's asked in a manner which suggests either or....but not both. The truth is something at 50% is both (half full and half empty ) it just depends on your reference point So it is with adjudicating success and failures. I'd suggest any number of opinions/ views/ standpoints can exist simultaneously with all/none/ some having validity. It's also very possible that you can be critical and supportive. They're not mutually independent. If something is working at 80% ability/ efficiency/ results then it's entirely reasonable to want the extra 20 and bemoan fault, especially glaring and highlight perceived causes.. Anything that hasn't achieved maximum...is mediocre. And that's not good enough to win Premierships. I acknowledge you can also commend the rising from 50% to 80 ( or whatever ) ...but thats not ( for mine ) the goal . The goal is to win...and especially one particular game. Getting there needs skill ,determination , application and design. I support anything that improves that and also disapprove that which doesn't.. On the subject of Barracking however; I'm Melbourne , I'm Melbourne through and through

I think some need to ease up on the Koolaid or whatever they're imbibing and start understanding that there are NO RULES to supporting. If the manner that some do either offends or whatever...then I suggest to these Princesses they just suck it up. Works both ways...some find it nauseating that mediocrity is not only condoned...it's actually encouraged by some. This is a world of differing views. Football is no different, why should it be. Probably the only time it somewhat aligns is when things go swimmingly. Even then some will choose an ale...others a Red and Cheese. Nothing wrong with either or anything in between. Some want to own the narrative. You don't. Live with it.

Nearly vomited.... might still.

Again...the blood rule was a kneejerk response at the time of the HIV pandamonium. We now understand the risks and nature of transferring such a lot better. Still in last century