daisycutter

the assumption (yours) seems to be that the StevieJ situation is some kind of panacea to players with behavioural or form issues it is not. each situation has its own nuances else we would have seen hundreds of StevieJ style situations across the afl clubs I wish people would stop bringing up StevieJ as if it is some kind of accepted bullet-proof generic solution

So we should fine and game ban players who "float through careers without ever fulfilling their talent"? This is what I mean about separating "misbehaviour" from "on-field performance". Punishment for "misbehaviour" must address only the "misbehaviour". Once misbehaviour punishment starts to encompass both elements it starts to get quite murky. It doesn't necessarily follow that punishment for off-field misbehaviour will improve on-field performance.

Oxygen anyone?

we're on the same page there Bbb.

Maybe that's why [insert your deity here] invented forums?

Um.....think about it..................kidding

are you kidding?

Maybe that was Juice's excuse too?

I'm probably not making my point very clearly. And btw I wasn't implying you were one who was calling for extreme penalties. I don't want to rehash his latest incident. Yes it was dumb even it wasn't one of the more serious kinds of misdemeanor. Yes, it deserves punishment. I would have preferred something more immediate rather than something simmering for nearly six months but that is just a personal pov. Yes it was training/attitude related in that he was drinking (and presumably not sleeping) the night before IR training (an offense I would estimate is quite common among AFL players especially early in the week). Yes, this should be taken into consideration in his punishment. But, with regard to his on-field performance/attitude generally this example should be the only example taken into punishment consideration for this specific incident. I was intimating that a number of posters have been very critical of Sylvia's (perceived) on-field performance/attitude for a number of years especially because of his high drafting position and that in part they may be wanting to "punish" him for that as well as punish him for the incident. Yes, I know that off-field attitude and on-field attitude can often be correlated but not always. There are plenty of examples which disprove this as there are examples which seem to prove it. I say punish him for his off-field misbehavior appropriately on the one hand, and on the other hand, work through the coaching department (heavens knows we now have enough of them) to improve his on-field accountability through improving his fitness, tactics, defense, 2nd efforts, etc etc. I hope the coaches work on him heavily and give him hell, but that is a different issue than his recent misdemeanor Hope that puts my pov better and I haven't just muddied it more.

So, are you seriously suggesting we should start fining players whose on-field performances and perceived on-field attitudes don't meet expectations. There would be a lot of players being fined based on 2011 performances. I don't think you really meant that, so similarly Sylvia shouldn't have these factors included in his punishment for his current misbehaviour. However, I would agree that if the punishment does have an effect on his attitude this could consequently well have a positive effect on his on-field performance. Can't you see that off-field misdemeanors and on-field perceived attitude/performance are handled by different and separate mechanisms even though one could incidentally impact the other?

Why do you think I would bring it up if I didn't think there could be some correlation there? Shees! The punishment should be related to the offense (and any priors) and not tainted by other subjective emotions. On-field performance issues are tackled by training, coaching and selection regimes.

I wonder if any players missed training thanks to Qantas?

Too much hyperbole for me H_T. Just remember too that it is simplistic to think that there is a a 'one-size-fits-all' remedy to behaviour modification I wonder whether some of the acrimony and calling for even more punishment is not tainted by things other than off-field misbehaviour such as Colin not living upto some posters expectations with his on-field performances.

I agree, some people just don't see the big picture.

and I thought that 98% was the new 100%

That is very similar to what I heard too

Hah! You obviously never watched Bellbird

I don't think you even understand the concept of patronising but thanks for trying even if unoriginal

He notified the club within a couple of hours. Nothing unusual there it was early on a sunday morning I'm not denying he was stupid and I'm not saying he should face some retribution I am just saying it has got completely blown out of proportion

now you are patronising me

just out of curiosity, why the hell would the police contact the club? strange? if you had a similar accident in your private car on a Sun morning I can't imagine the police ringing your employer

who said let idiots do what ever they want? i just said the punishment doesn't fit the "crime" he got three separate punishments (spread over 6 months) plus the shaming and naming in the press and YOU still aren't satisfied what are you going to do when someone really mucks up?

So, that's the only way to change culture? really imaginative.

glad we never took on Eade as coach he had absolutely no game plan they would have been better to go back to good old man-on-man footy and kick long sylvia was lucky he wasn't part of the shambles