Whispering_Jack

The Melbourne Football Club has a proud record of past players who fought for and in some cases died for our country but fair dinkum there are some people who these days call themselves supporters that you wouldn't want to be with in the trenches.

Creative accounting practices were as alive and well in those days as they are now. And take it from me, we were already 10 years behind the leading VFL clubs who were getting richer in every respect while we were getting poorer. The big Carl decision sounded great but it was a case of putting all of eggs in one basket and I suspect some resentment was brewing.

This is from memory only Ted but I'm almost 100% certain that one of the four Melbourne TV stations screened the play And the big men fly on grand final night 1964. I watched it at home alone. I can guarantee I'll celebrate the next one with a night out on the town.

Surely the title to the article would have given it away as a poor joke? http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/punters-back-essendon-for-2013-premiership/story-e6frepf6-1226547666310'>Punters back Essendon for 2013 premiership

I don't recall Hazelwood getting a gig in Perth. His only international appearance was in an ODI in 2010 when he took 1/41 off seven overs. He's injured and has no hope of going this time around.

It's such a pity that Maldon Boy's excellent post found itself mixed up with the detritus in the remainder of the thread. Perhaps MB could post it elsewhere because it's a hot night, this thread generally offends against most aspects of the COC and it's time to say goodbye to this sorry mess of what once was a topic in someone's mind. Goodbye.

Great! The wives love Chadstone as much as we love the G.

Although you do raise some interesting comparisons, I'll back my analogy against yours because in the first instance Kafka wrote The Trial well before Stalin came to power and certainly at a time when Nicolae Ceaușescu and Idi Amin were mere babes. More importantly, the story here is more about conspiracy and betrayal than outright brutality of the Stalinists et al. Unfortunately, we're very good at eating our own at Melbourne - we've been doing it on and off for 48 years and that's why we're more susceptible to beat ups from Wilson and co. than some of the other clubs.The Great McCarthy does evoke thoughts of Joseph McCarthy who is definitely the inspiration behind Wilson and the tanking inquisition but the play you're thinking about is And the big men fly. That was about a team called the Crows whose modern day counterpart has ironically been subjected to a taste of AFL justice recently. I'll award a bonus point for the Demonland quiz comp if you can tell me the connection between ATBMF and Melbourne.

I think most of us acknowledge the importance of the midfield to a team's finals (and ultimately, premiership) aspirations as well as the fact that, in Melbourne's case, we've been well below par in that department for at least a decade. Our recruiting over the past couple of seasons has certainly been focussed on improving the quality and depth of our midfield players and, like BH, I'm hopeful that the infusion of a mixture of youth and experience into the midfield will help us improve dramatically in 2013. It's worth remembering that Jimmy T was the only top 10 draft pick who had experience last year playing against men (and he was an important member of a SANFL premiership team the year before). Likewise, Jack Viney. Accordingly, they should adapt to the complexity of the systems of play far more rapidly than many of their early choice counterparts from other clubs. But our recruiters in their wisdom have also concentrated on improving the potency of our attack which should be much stronger all round than it has been since the days when Neita and Robbo prowled the forward line with a young Aaron Davey at their feet. It's amazing in those circumstances, how your midfield grows in confidence and stature when they know that their forward movements are going to be honoured by players downfield who know what they're doing rather than inconsistent half-hearted performers who constantly get out-bodied or simply aren't in the right places so the ball gets shunted right back at or over the heads of the midfielders. It works both ways and likewise, an improved defensive unit should help our midfield as well. Suffice to say, I'm liking what the football department has been doing with our defence and I can see a few of our young emerging players finally coming good and giving us a defensive unit on par with many of the teams that currently scoff at the very mention of the word "Melbourne". You can rave about your midfields but I've always believed that defences win premierships and its no coincidence that the best defence in the competition won the flag in 2012 (Sydney - 1629 points against v Hawthorn - 1733 against). Jetta may well have been the icing on the cake but underneath they had the likes of Grundy, LRT, Richards, Shaw, Smith, Mattner and Johnson. I reckon we have the players who could match them among our list of defenders*. But the area where our midfield has the greatest capacity to improve is in the fact that the team now gathered together appears on the same page and willing to accept the tactics and strategies laid out by the football department. That's the area where I expect our midfield (and the team as a whole) to advance the most in 2013. It was obvious early last season that we had players not apparently willing to buy into what was laid out for them by the coach. Too many trying to play their own individual game. The midfield unit is supposed to be a team within a team - that's what I expect from them this year and if they play that way then the gulf between us and the top sides in this area will narrow considerably. * I like coming out with big statements early in the season.

Forget Australia v Sri Lanka for a moment. Was anybody concerned for NZ when they were 1/0 at the start of their second dig?

It already is although I have to forewarn that Redleg and I and our respective wives are about to embark on a cruise around the coast of Australia and during much of that time we will be out of range for Demonland so the supply of news here will dwindle to nothing from time to time in the next 12 days. I agreed to this stupidity (I fear the onset of sea sickness already 24 hours before we board the ship) before I discovered the club had appointed Jason Taylor to cover recruiting. I was going to check out the prospective 2013 recruits for Todd in every capital city. We're not stopping in Perth because we already have the best from there in Jesse Hogan. In the meantime, could someone please confirm whether a banana daiquiri is a reliable cure for seasickness?

Er ... before anyone here rushes out to your favourite bookshop (if it still exists) or to whoever supplies what was once known as books through kindle to purchase The Trial in the hope that it's on par with A salute to the great McCarthy, I suggest you hold your horses. Kafka's a bit of an acquired taste - you need to be seen carrying it around a university campus for at least two semesters before you start on page 1.

Interesting but you haven't enlightened us about the obviously flawed information Wilson has provided over the journey (aside from the obvious incorrect dates, times and player information which her editors rather shabbily corrected without the expected notes as to why the information was edited). I mean the disputed versions of what constituted the "vault", why those meetings were called and why others have described as 30 second asides what Wilson stated were fundamental to the objectives of the supposedly sinister "vault". The fact is that we've all been had, you included.And I also checked with Tom Waterhouse to see if there was a "market" only to discover that like a great deal else in this sorry scenario, even the market is "smoke and mirrors" - it doesn't exist. That is not to say that the AFL is not of a mind to back its investigative team and lay charges. However, it hasn't done so to date but rather, it opted for a strange process in that it put the "evidence" it has before the MFC in the hope of nutting out a plea bargain. That to me is indicative of a lot of things but the accuracy of Wilson's editorial diatribe isn't one of them. If Wilson was as good as you think then she would, in that piece, have enlightened her readers of what charges specifically, the club was about to face. Neither she nor Clark today, have done that. Perhaps that's because the AFL are still working on confecting a new offence that the club might be charged with if it decides to go that way after reading Ray Finkelstein's submission. As far as I'm concerned, the tanking issue was most accurately distilled in the work not of Caroline Wilson or Jay Clark but by an obscure writer of football tales named Franz Kafka in The Trial. Heavy going but more accurate on the subject matter and a very worthwhile read.

Not one bit. What I'm saying is that in relative terms, Wilson is still well ahead of Clark. That doesn't make her any less nasty a piece of work than she is (or her newspaper).

This article in today's Herald Sun http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/tank-probe-dozen-witness-statements-could-cook-careers/story-e6frepf6-1226547335584'>Tank probe: Dozen witness statements could cook careers in Melbourne investigation at least proves that Fan is half right in that Wilson is streets ahead of the competition. As has been pointed out in the AFL Investigation thread, Jay Clark is merely mimicking what passed for "news" two months ago. But there are no leaks of any smoking guns in the form of incriminating emails or anything else which suggests either that Vlad has successfully put an end to the leaks or that no smoking gun exists. Meanwhile, Fairfax Media seems to have shut down on the issue since Wilson went on leave, perhaps an indication that their parlous financial situation precludes them from employing real reporters in her absence?

Apparently, Dom Barry is being hosted by someone who owns a cafe or a restaurant and who is not only looking after his diet and nutrition but also teaching him the finer points of cooking. Sounds like a good idea to me. Fills me with confidence that, unlike one recently departed player, he won't weight roughly what he weighs now in five years time.

Gary, Do yourself a favour and park your car at a railway station that's handy and catch a train to Richmond Station. It's just a brief walk to AAMI Park from there and your blood pressure will stay at reasonable levels which is a much better idea than trying to "pork yore caw"* anywhere near the place. * my tribute to the late Tony Greig. RIP

Disappointed in the Maxwell 12th man decision. With a 2-0 lead in the series, Watson a doubtful all rounder in the future and two batting champions leaving the game in such quick succession, I would have thought playing Maxwell in this test was a no brainer.

I heard part of the news last night on the way home from dinner and thought it was a T20 game. Philander's comeback figures of 5/7 pretty stunning. SA batted out 64 overs till stumps for a handy 3/252. IMO they should introduce the mercy rule for situations such as this although, as they say in the classics, cricket's a funny game

Thanks for your report Its Time. To think that this was my only opportunity until next month that I've had to catch up with a training session and I missed it!

I think a review of 2012 would not be complete without an understanding of the events that took place in Alice Springs in March. I nominate this post from an Alice Springs local The Fork from http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/29534-the-exile]THE EXILE as the Demonland post of the year:- The centre of Australia is a troubled space, now more so than ever in my time here. I dont want the broader issues and incidents I discuss in the following post to reflect on Liam and the incident that he has alleged to have been a part of. Nor do I wish to suppose to have any specific knowledge on the Yuendumu situation. But perhaps some of the following can provide some context for understanding the reported events on Wednesday night and the commentary that has flowed since. The incident earlier this week, allegedly involving possibly this countrys most famous indigenous person, seems to have (momentarily) thrust some attention upon the difficult lives of Aboriginal people in Central Australia. The popular media has suggested that this incident was cultural. It also seems to have been suggested that our inability to properly comprehend this incident stems from our disinterest and our collective failure to understand Aboriginal people and their culture. A part of this I agree with, I see something a little different however in how the incident itself has been reported and interpreted. This incident, as we know, was part of an ongoing feud. It has been suggested that those involved were part of a legitimate attempt at ritual retribution. I think it is important when interpreting the events of the week to have some historical understanding of payback and how it has evolved into what it is today. Historically payback in the Western Desert occasionally involved groups of males (ritual avengers) who sought out specific individuals deemed to have caused wrong to a family member of theirs. They were not random acts of violence. When the guilty party was located a confrontation, either by ambush or in special circumstances, a mutually organised event took place. In some instances during post-contact times payback evolved into a highly organised, strictly governed sequence of events (more like a performance or ceremony) that was minutely controlled by a group of senior men. The physical act, of the spearing in most instances, was always performed by the appropriate avenging family member who was either experienced in such acts or was closely instructed by the afore mentioned senior men. This was often to ensure the wound was not fatal and to satisfy those seeking retribution by way of the temporary affliction of pain and crippling upon the wrong-doer. I have witnessed a recent (8 years ago) version of such events. It was attended by the entire community, it occurred in the middle of the day and in a neutral part of the community. It all transpired under the close surveillance of an experienced team of members from the Northern Territory Police force. Medical staff from the local clinic were also on hand to tend to the resultant wounds after the procedure was complete. At no stage did this event stray from its intent. It saw a partial end to the ill feeling between the two families involved and the same process settled a number of other ongoing disputes. This is not to say however that the original act of violence or sorcery was forgotten or forgiven. Often the ramifications of such incidents last and manifest themselves in other ways. Such carefully organised events are unfortunately rare. Current acts of payback in the town camps of Alice Springs happens on an almost weekly basis. The disturbing, almost guaranteed ingredient these days however is of course alcohol. There has been a strong tendency, over a number of decades, to attempt to excuse pure drunken violence as cultural payback. It is problematic then when Wednesday nights incident, which it must be said, was typical of the norm in Central Australia, is reported, interpreted and then understood as some sort of traditional or culturally sanctioned right of passage. There is a vast irreconcilable difference between the strictly governed form of retribution described previously and the alcohol fueled free-for-all that is currently commonplace. Whilst I believe there needs to be an acknowledgement of Aboriginal law within Whitefella law, which I extend to include controlled retribution, I do not accept the oft presented and disturbingly popular consideration that the violence as it occurs almost nightly in Alice Springs is cultural. There must come a time when racial politics must step aside and yield to reason. Make no mistake, I believe Liam was/is highly obliged to play his role as a well regarded member of a family involved in a complex dispute. The words in the previous sentence may sound pithy, but the heavy expectation upon family in Central Australian indigenous culture is impossible to fathom from the outside, where I consider myself to sit. Liam is expected and obliged to express his feelings about the death of his kin. Violence, it is said, is an expression of feeling (this comes from an excellent book on a neighboring cultural group the Pintupi). Liam is obviously attempting not to shirk his responsibilities in two worlds with two differing peer groups. Because when its all over and he returns to the Western Desert with a premiership medallion around his neck, he must face his family and stand as the true Warlpiri man I expect he is. I try to remind myself that every football career is a relatively short one and that football is just a part of his life. This is a bitter pill to swallow if you are footy mad and not understanding of Liams extreme circumstance. None of this explains why he was at Little Sisters and he put himself in the circumstance he did. None of this excuses his actions. It is devastating and together we feel it. The one thing I take solace in though is Liam himself. Some thought Rudeboys fantastic biography on Liam was premature and a few never bought into Brett Badgers assertion that for Liam the journey to game number 1 was greater than the journey to game 200. Ive met Liam a few times, but dont know him from a bar of soap. What I do know though is where he has come from, my wife grew up on a neighboring community Even if you saw it with you own eyes, you like me, would still fail to fathom it. The Liam Jurrah effect in Central Australia is palpable. Kids want to be him and wear our colours because he does. These kids have had a magnificent role model, which for me is what makes this week so difficult to swallow. Cars parade around the desert emblazoned in windscreen-wide Demons stickers. A relative of his I know well, whose name is spelt slightly differently due to a bureaucratic misspelling, desperately wants to change his name by deedpoll, so proud he is of his nephew Liam and his relationship to him. I suppose my motivation for writing this post is multi-pronged. I hope the complexity of Liams situation is a little more exposed and that understanding may come from it. I also want to respond to the concern some posters share about the circumstance of people in Central Australia. Because this is the guts of the pain and confusion we have felt this week. Liam has made a series of bad decisions to be in the position he is. But I encourage you all to stand by him and our proud club on our collective learning curve. When he returns to play the game he loves consider for a moment not just the journey Liam continues to travel upon, but the journey we, as his supporters, do as well. ---- Indigenous disadvantage in this country is a real thing. I cannot begin to discuss this issue here as it just doesnt feel right. But remember this; Liam comes from a chronically underfunded community where there is almost zero opportunities for long-term meaningful employment. His family have probably never had the opportunity to own their own home. The Fedral Governments Intervention saw all Aboriginal men throughout the Territory cast with the suspicion of being drunken pornographic obsessed pedophiles. Just look at the big signs as you enter any and ever Aboriginal community here. His families income is managed by the government who tell them where they can and cannot spend their money. Some non-indigenous people who live on Aboriginal communities and receive government assistance are exempt. Why? Because their not indigenous. How? The Howard government suspended the Racial Discrimination Act in this country. Rudd and Gillard have upheld this since. Imagine how you would feel. -------- Earlier this year a 9 year old girl hanged herself in her home community on the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Lands in South Australia. 9 years old. Also in Central Australia, a coroner earlier this week described the body of a domestic violence victim as having injuries consistent with what one would expect if the body had fallen from an aircraft in flight. On Tuesday in Alice Springs a woman from a community 380kms west of Alice Springs had her throat slit. Her husband is being sought for questioning as the prime suspect in the case. But perhaps what has motivated me to share my thoughts with you today is what I woke to this morning. Just last night a dear old friend of mine was violently stabbed to death in a camp not far from Little Sisters. He too was from a remote community and was the victim of a family dispute fueled by drugs and alcohol. His own brother is wanted for questioning. His mother inconsolable, a family devastated. My concern, which I cannot answer, is why is this happening and why dont you as Australians know and hear about it like I do? --- For me Jack, Demonland (& Demonologys) proudest moment was when we bought his debut guernsey and gifted it to the community of Yuendumu. I am assured it does stand as the beacon we wanted it to be and always will. I know Liams Grandmothers acceptance of our gift was a proud moment for those present. It showed that people understood, even way back then, what a special person was in our midst. There have been questions asked during this last week of what one can do to understand, to help or assist. I might suggest some websites below of organisations that rely on the support of good people. Mount Theo Western Desert Nganampa Walytja Palyantjaku Tjutaku Aboriginal Corporation The Central Australian Aboriginal Alcohol Programs Unit The Ngaanyatjarra Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara (NPY) Women's Council Drug and Alcohol Services

No to your first question and it wasn't a "barb" either but rather a fact that poor behaviour on the part of our footballers, especially involving alcohol is not defined by a person's colour or creed. To single out indigenous players for opprobrium when clearly the behaviour you described is also a problem with others comes within my definition of racism and further, I have to add that not saying so is dishonest and to describe people who acknowledge this as "ignorant" is shameful. That is not to say that some indigenous players don't have issues related to their circumstances but I believe by and large that the AFL is doing a terrific job with its educational programmes and the employment of prominent persons as role models for their communities (however, like some others I do have a problem with Jason Mifsud's role at the AFL). People are always quick to mention the few who might go "off the rails" but you can't help but be impressed with the contributions of Chris Johnson, Michael Long (the bump on Troy Simmonds notwithstanding), Adam Goodes, Michael O'Loughlin and our own Aaron Davey. I can go beyond the "stars" and talk about Isaac Weetra who was briefly on our list a few years ago and who I had the pleasure of meeting when he was at the club. A more intelligent and articulate young man, you would never meet and I doubt that he would ever do wheelies in a private school car park, consort with known criminals, get arrested twice on an overseas trip, dump on his former club, pee on a night club counter at 3am or become a self-confessed alcoholic (all of these are problems that require help as well). Instead, he was just one of now well over 200 indigenous footballers, the majority law abiding citizens despite their tragic history in this land, who played the game at the elite level. And I wouldn't be throwing around statistics about the decline in their numbers because of the official figure of three indigenous players drafted and one redrafted in the 2012 AFL draft. These figures don't take into account three indigenous players taken as NT pre-draft selections Jed Anderson (Hawthorn), Jake Neade (Port Adelaide) and our own Dom Barry as well as rookies Brett Goodes (Bulldogs) and Zac Williams (GWS). The numbers might be down marginally but still well above the proportion of indigenous in the general population. Everything I've heard about Dom Barry and the way he's settling in at the club has been positive. The story of Jed Anderson who has done it tough is quite inspirational - Hawks snap up Thunder's Anderson It's a pity that people jump at the opportunity to accentuate the negatives but never look beyond what they want to see. Most of the time the answer is a matter of education and learning. Let's just hope that Harley Bennell learns his lesson from the past week or so as do Jeremy Howe and the Bay 13 boys. None of them are hardened criminals. They're all young men who have lots to learn from life irrespective of the pigmentation of their skins.

Who's dumb BH? Fan is not an anonymous poster somewhere out there in the ether who can disappear if he turns out to be wrong. Many of us know him and he's gone to great lengths to suggest that Wilson is usually right on the button with her source material (which is often the case) and he's done so to the point where he will be the subject of much ridicule if proven wrong. So my money is on the fact that Fan reckons she's going to be proven right. Of course, Wilson's editorial was largely an opinion piece in which she made known her poisonous views on one particular club, fully aware that others (including her beloved Tigers) were also involved in the same activities and in respect of which the AFL was doing nothing. Her very strong agenda against the club and two officials who she named was made clear and, though she would never divulge her sources, I have a feeling that these will be known in the fullness of time. In any event, I wouldn't be proud of ever endorsing such a person, nor would I come back to gloat about it.

Positively knee slapping, side-splitting humour Fan. I hope you keep the standard as high as this throughout the season, even when Caro writes her next piece suggesting that everyone working in any administrative capacity at the MFC during 2009 should automatically be arrested and charged under Section 34(b) of the Summary Offences Act 1958. But don't worry. We'll send the brief to Redleg or Rumpole. They'll fix things!

Thanks Dr. John - it fascinates me to think back on the time just before the club took off and to compare how things were then with today. There must have been moments in 1953 when our rise to the top within two years would have been simply unimaginable.