Whispering_Jack

Fowler (he's changed his surname from Salton) and Smith are tall KPP's who have some good attributes for VFL but I'm not sure as to whether they have it all together enough to go that step further. Fowler's got a great kick, Smith can take a big mark but both were hot and cold last year. Luke Tynan is the older brother of Josh and is a medium sized utility who plays hard and improved from reserves b & f to become a regular. All three really stepped up under Brett Lovett but need to continue that development this year. I know there are many knockers who criticise our relationship with the Casey Scorpions but I think the alignment can work well both in an on the ground basis where we need good second tier players backing up the younger players on our list (I'd hate to see Jesse Hogan playing in a team of duds) and off field where we're committed to turning the fast growing area into a nursery for future supporters and members. With the possibility of Chris Connolly playing a role in some capacity out at Casey this year (in some ways a continuation of his old role anyway), I believe we can still make this partnership work

Tim, I agree with you in a sense but let me tell you my main frustration first and that is the propensity of people to misinterpret what others are saying. You started off with saying that you are frustrated with "the idea that there are 'rifts' in the club which Jim Stynes supposedly eradicated". You seem to have this belief that Jim Stynes had some sort of power over disgruntled people who lost their positions on the board or lost their jobs as a result of the changes that took place when he came to power because that is the crux of the matter. Where did you get this idea from and what is your source? Jim Stynes put together a united the board (and they still appear united with the support of the majority of members to this day) but could he have done anything to prevent his predecessor from talking to the media in disparaging terms about the club over tanking at the time an AFL investigation was being instigated? Did Stynes and his board have the power to prevent disgruntled ex-board members from strongly criticising the current board over its handling of the Bailey dismissal or anything else it was doing? I don't believe that it had (or even should have had) the power to muzzle ex-Board members or ex-employees from speaking out (even if anonymously on supporter forums) if that's what they wanted. We live in a democracy and they're entitled to express their views and their feelings. The issue of whether it's appropriate for them to do so in all the circumstances is another matter. I've received a substantial amount of information from various people over the past 18 months about this issue (including one major source of information parts of which I need to respect some confidentiality over). I haven't accepted some of the things I've been told because they can't be checked. One thing I ascertained was that before the old Board left power in the hands of the Stynes administration, they requested and received an agreement from the incoming Board to refrain from issuing any criticism of them - a non-disparagement agreement if you like - which has been confirmed to me by a former board member (the confirmation gave added credibility to my main source of information). In those circumstances, I find it disappointing that any former board member found it necessary to disparage the new board (even though they didn't sign a reciprocal agreement). But to suggest that there were no remaining rifts between the old and the new (whether it be board, administration or other employees) as a result of the many changes that have taken place is naive in the extreme. I said above that there's a lot more to come out of this and in particular the connection between Wilson, those who "snitched" to the tanking enquiry and the sources of her "vault" story and other news stories that broke in 2011 and 2012 about our club. I believe that much of this emanated from some of the rifts I mention above. I will tell the full story in my own good time. Do you really think that there is no such connection or that those recently in the employ of the club didn't know what Caro knew and what she didn't know?

The AFL will ignore the Liberatore interview. I've been informed that the AFL's position is that Libba was investigated at the time and changed his tune by qualifying much of what he said in the interview. The AFL then declared that Carlton was pure as the driven snow and that furthermore, nothing new has come up since to warrant a new investigation. Never mind the stuff in Fevola's book and never mind that there was also an investigation against Melbourne and Bailey that came up with no wrongdoing before the McLean interview. "Mr McLachlan said if any person came forward with new evidence involving clubs acting in a manner which was prejudicial to the interests of the AFL, the AFL’s integrity department would examine any such evidence." The trouble with this is that when Liberatore was being investigated, it was generally understood to be an investigation into tanking and not conduct unbecoming or prejudicial to the interests of the AFL. Isn't it time that this aspect is investigated - particularly given that some Carlton people were openly boasting about resting players to avoid their participation in a game they didn't want to win? Was someone leaning on Brett Ratten so that he wouldn't place a tag on Travis Johnstone in the Kreuzer Cup? No, I don't think the AFL wants to know and the heroes in the media who have suddenly gone shtum don't either. And what about Terry Wallace's admission. That's never been investigated before to my knowledge. Where's the call for an investigation?

I agree wholeheartedly but unfortunately, there are people who were not prepared to move on who got us into the situation where the club was forced to expend a great deal of time and resources to protect itself and its employees from the damage they caused. If those people aren't satisfied with the results of their handiwork to date, then further damage could be caused to the club. We need to be aware of this possibility.

Let's face it, the shoulda, woulda, coulda stuff is not "evidence"' but rather a load of bs concocted by the parties to get a negotiated result to save everyone the cost of a Supreme Court stoush that would have cost far more than $500k and damaged some reputations irreparably. The fact of the matter is that the both the AFL and the MFC held the opinions of senior legal counsel that no case of tanking against us could be sustained. The top brass of the AFL have admitted they can't define tanking. Chris Connolly and to a lesser extent, Dean Bailey, were the patsies. I hope when the dust settles, Chris gets the rumoured gig at Casey so that he can gainfully fill the time till 1 February 2014 doing valuable work for the Scorpions within the Casey community which will also ultimately benefit the club he loves.

Someone should tell Smith that the workers at News of the World also reported ultimately to Rupert Murdoch. Let's see how long he lasts at News Limited if he follows up the line of thinking he has over the need for CS to resign by calling for Murdoch's head.

Of course they would say that sort of thing. No doubt they would put down the result of their last premiership match, the First Elimination Final on Sunday, 9 September, 2012 (West Coast 24.18.162 - North Melbourne 9.12.66) to the team easing up after the five minute mark of the first quarter.

Martin Flanagan is a shining light at the Age newspaper and is one of the few reasons why I regret that I no longer subscribe to the newspaper these days. He writes stories about the people of the game and his article about Chris Connolly yesterday (difficult to find on line via the iPhone but worth the search) is sheer brilliance - A good man to fill a silence. It touches the heart, essence and personality of the man who was much more harshly treated than the salary cap cheating CEO of Adelaide and who obviously took an enormous hit for the club he loves. Flanagan - There's lots more in Flanagan's magical writing and I understand the man has his detractors (and I'll come back to this later) but I feel that for the time being we should just reflect on the above and ask why such a dedicated person and a hero of the club has been made to pay such a heavy price for being loyal.

Let's not get too carried away with this sort of silly stuff about Ms. Wilson. The subject of this thread is quite serious and the fact that the tanking enquiry is over does not mean its the end of the vendetta against the club and its current board and administration. There's a lot more to come out of this and in particular the connection between her, those who snitched to the tanking enquiry and the sources of her "vault" story and other news stories that broke in 2011 and 2012 about our club. Stay tuned.

If he plays with the same passion as last night he can keep the thing. Where was this sort of poll last year when Lynden Dunn had that ridiculous mo.

Mr. Leg. I live four doors away from you and have plenty of that yellow fruit at my place so if your craving persists your welcome to pick up a couple this arvo.

Went to the games last night with three of the grandkids who were tired at the end and retained their enthusiasm for the team and the colours despite the result. This morning oldest granddaughter went to netball (win), oldest grandson to basketball (loss) and then it was off to Luna Park to be with genuine Melbourne people who were mainly interested in the players and the footy team going forward. The presentation was the highlight for the kids apart from a couple of scary rides although it's really time that Robbo was told that our captain's name is not Trengrove. The two players missing from the presentation were Sam Blease (sprained ankle) and James Frawley (cut head). Although nobody expressed any official concern, I would suggest that neither will be figuring in the next couple of NAB Cup games. Robbo finished off by inviting supporters to our next event - NAB Cup 2 v Port Adelaide at Renmark. I don't think there will be many takers.

I taped all four of the NAB Cup Under 18 championship games that Fox Footy presented in July last year including the two in which Hogan represented WA and I've kept them on the IQ (shows we didn't have much of value from last year worth keeping). Suffice to say the lid was off the minute I laid eyes on this bloke and it's no wonder that North supporters were talking about him last night and comparing him with Wayne Carey. Now, I think that's a bit premature but only because he needs to have one further ingredient instilled into him and that is the "mongrel" factor (and I mean that in the nicest possible way as not including Carey's despicable past record of anti-social off field behaviour). I mean that if he can learn over the next 2 or 3 seasons to be tough and uncompromising in the way Carey played then blokes like Jack Viney, Jimmy Toumpas and he will help convert the weak culture instilled into the club over the past decade and make our team one to be feared for the future.

At the end of a week in which we were duly reminded of the paramount importance of winning matches, Melbourne surprised nobody by posting losses against North Melbourne and Richmond to open their 2013 NAB Cup campaign. The Demons trailled for most of both games in steamy conditions at Etihad Stadium, came close to beating the Kangaroos in the opener and then succumbed to fatigue, injury and the faster and stronger Tigers in the second. While coach Mark Neeld summed it up saying, "we were pretty good, we were fairly pleased, the hit out against two of the league's middle of the road sides demonstrated that there's still a long way to go for his struggling side but at least, they're on the right track. There were eleven new faces on show for Melbourne so it would have been fanciful to expect them to dominate against more experienced opposition but there were many good signs, in particular the form of the youngsters, Jack Viney, Jimmy Toumpas, Dean Kent and recently turned 18 Jesse Hogan who is just too good to be cooling his heels with the Casey Scorpions which is exactly where he will be this year because of his GWS mini draftee status. The more mature bodied Chris Dawes, Shannon Byrnes, David Rodan, Cameron Pedersen and Tom Gillies all showed a bit in their cameos, so it was a big night for their club even if it didn't bring home the non-existent four points. After all (and I'm really loathe to use the word in any context related to the AFL) the evening was all about "experimenting", the most successful one being the continuation of the use of former number one draft pick Jack Watts in defence. He's bigger and stronger this year, has silky skills and disposal, a little more aggression and smarter. Jack was good value in both games, kicked a couple of goals and showed that he has grown into his role. The problem with the team's defensive set up was that it was too top heavy on the night and was short of at least one medium defender. I'm not sure why James Strauss didn't line up in any of the games but his presence and his accurate kicking would have been useful. In any event, this is one area where a little fine tuning should see great improvement over last year. The same could be said of the forward line which looked a bit cluttered and top heavy early on giving the Kangaroos' defence many chances to clear and making it difficult to capitalise on scoring opportunities. Their defenders benefited from some glaring umpire eyesight issues in the early stages but that can be put down to the time of year. In the second game, without Dawes who had presented well, Hogan playing further afield and Pedersen rucking after Spencer went off, the forwards fell by the wayside. Jeremy Howe led well and looked good and this division will be greatly enhanced when Mitch Clark finally returns from injury. Oh, and the search continues for a dangerous crumbing forward. The bane of our existence has for some time been the third world midfield and, on last night, it will continue to be so for a while yet. The Dees were well beaten at the stoppages in the opener as they struggled to win clearances but that had to be expected with so much inexperience in this division. Nathan Jones was the best in this area, David Rodan added bite and Toumpas and Viney will definitely play a role in the club's revival of fortunes. Jordie McKenzie was strong with his tackling but a liability with his poor footskills while skipper Jack Grimes was a bit subdued. The team lost a bit when Sam Blease who had been showing some zip and movement between the lines went off with an ankle injury. Later in the evening, injuries cruelled the Demons who were limited in the ruck after Jake Spencer and James Frawley left the field. The triple header system works against teams playing second in hot conditions and the Demons never looked like winning against the Tigers who had a more energy and cohesion. To Melbourne's credit, it fought the game out well and outscored both of its opponents in the second half of their games and but for the scoring system that only applies in the NAB Cup would have ended up square for the night. While that is no compensation for some, I don't think anyone other than the rottweiler who poses as the chief football writer of a local rag could say that Melbourne didn't play the game on its merits even if there was a fair bit of experimentation going on. Melbourne 0.2.2.14 0.5.6.36 North Melbourne 1.2.2.23 1.4.5.38 Goals Howe 2 Hogan Kent Watts Best Jones Howe Hogan Melbourne 0.1.0.6 0.2.3.15 Richmond 1.2.5.26 1.2.9.30 Goals Toumpas Watts Best Jones Toumpas Watts

I don't know why it's a surprise that Kennett hadn't seen Libba's interview before.I myself had only seen a short grab of the interview before. What I saw last night was completely damning of Demetriou and his underlings at the AFL. To not have investigated Carlton in greater depth after that and now hide their heads in the sand about it but, at the same time, to spend 7 plus months on Melbourne is disgraceful. Those apologists like Wilson and Bartlett in particular who don't want Carlton and Richmond investigated after this week's outcome are disgusting hypocrites.

Despite the media's voracious appetite for tanking stories during the period in which Melbourne was under the gun, last night's revelations on Footy Classified were apparently completely missed by Fairfax Media whose chief football writer is apparently in Singapore (despite extensive research Demonland has been unable to uncover any AFL related activity there). Meanwhile, over at the Herald Sun, they managed to cover Jeff Kennett's views on Andrew Demetriou's handling of the issues pressing the AFL these days but Nick Smart's (the name is surely an oxymoron) article ignored what Kennett had to say about Carlton and the others who "tanked" and how Melbourne and Connolly should feel discriminated against by the AFL - AFL boss Andrew Demetriou's time is up, says Jeff Kennett I suppose Robbo didn't have the time to prepare a double page spread about the Kreuzer Cup and other eye opening games which Tony Liberatore spoke about in that damning interview which now takes on a whole new meaning. Finally, last night's programme really highlighted how disingenuous the On the Couch panel were that night when they asked loaded questions about tanking to a Carlton player of all people and never asked the bleedingly obvious question! Is the Carlton Football Club with all of its poker machines and powerful supporters really too big an organisation for the AFL and most of the media to confront? POSTSCRIPT: Could someone please ring the Age and tell them that there's some footy on at Etihad tonight. I wouldn't want them to miss that too.

The main victim in this heinous scenario is Chris Connolly, a loyal servant of the club whose punishment certainly doesn't fit the crime. I noticed on twitter that Jon Ralph is suggesting that Chris is a "monty" to be new Casey Scorpions Community Programs Manager. I like the idea but wonder if this could be done within the terms of his suspension given the Scorpions are affiliated with the MFC.

Unfortunately, there are too many hypocrites in the media who will not allow this story to go much further. For instance, KB poo hooed a caller who raised allegations of "tanking" by clubs other than Melbourne on the basis that the AFL wouldn't investigate because there was supposedly "no evidence". This suggestion is not much less ridiculous than Wilson's (above). As Kennett pointed out the Liberatore comments made it almost impossible for the AFL not to commence an investigation. Of course, KB, like CW has allegiances to Richmond and the Wallace admission is damning in light of the wording of Rule 19 (5A) or its counterpart from that time. If the AFL was serious about integrity and ensuring the due observance of its rules, it would look at the Wallace article and charge the Tigers.

I posted this a while ago on Demonology: Imagine a scenario in which there are at least a dozen allegations made in various places about different police officers involved in corruption in the State of Victoria. Now, imagine what would happen if the government called a Royal Commission to selectively investigate the allegations of corruption against one cop and one cop alone and refused point blank to extend the enquiry to police corruption in the State generally. And what if one of those allegedly corrupt cops who the government refused to investigate had a close association with the Premier of the state? You would have to start wondering about who really is the corrupt one in this scenario, wouldn't you?

Jeff Kennett, standing in for the so-called "first lady of football" says Liberatore disclosed a more severe form of tanking than Brock McLean's interview. Backs up what I was told in 2007 by a then Carlton Board member. The Terry Wallace admission was also covered. The AFL has dug a hole for itself and what has been highlighted is the need for an independent government enquiry into this mess. Integrity indeed!!!

If you think I would ever eat my fish and chips when there's a possibility that Caroline Wilson's face is starting at me from the wrapping, you've got another thing coming!

Do you consider that one or more of the four informants also supplied information to Caroline Wilson? Perhaps that one of those who you describe as "backstabbers" might have encouraged the informants to come forward? I think there has to be something about this club that sets it apart from several others who should be investigated for tanking/list management/acting against the interests of the AFL or whatever. I think there are some uber rats around the place and that's what might answer the question.

Roos is right - Roos advocates draft overhaul but he will forever remain in my eyes as the symbol of AFL hypocrisy over tanking. Roos claimed in 2008 that his instruction to a player not to kick a goal to win a NAB Cup game was a joke, the AFL investigators believed him and he was exonerated. Unlike Chris Connolly who was also joking when he made remarks attributed to him at the infamous vault meeting but copped a 12 month suspension because he supposedly put pressure on Dean Bailey to try to lose games. Roos asked the loaded question of Brock McLean. Hypocrisy on hypocrisy. If there was any pressure, it was on the Swans player not to kick the goal. The joke will always be on the AFL.

I went to a cafe after work today for a quick coffee and picked up a copy of the business and sports section of the Age. It's been a while since I've actually read anything other than an article on the on line Age edition (cancelled my subscription for reasons other than their football coverage). Strangely enough, I couldn't find Wilson's latest piece which I saw last night on their website. Did they pull it? If they did, it's at least a good sign that they're finally introducing some strict quality control at the Age. Never thought I would ever see the day when I would welcome that gasbag on a footy programme but if it means I don't have to suffer the pompous Wilson this week, I'm happy to cop him.

I don't know if that's more of an insult to womanhood or the AFL?