Whispering_Jack

I was only saying the other day that the Dunn resurgence reminded me of a past player Graham Osborne who came to the club in about 1966 as a half forward, played in a number of positions on the ground and didn't really establish himself as a player until the tail end of his career when he was played as a key defender. For most of his 12 seasons he was regarded as a bit of a spud but he came good at the end and for those last couple of years in particular, he was a very good full back. Let's hope we can say the same about Dunny.

Amen to that but you also have to feel for all of the clean sportsmen and women of the world who work their butts off to achieve at the highest levels of their sport. I'm always mindful of the likes of Raelene Boyle who could easily have been a multiple Olympic Gold Medallist if there was a body that oversaw anti doping practices in her time. I also feel sorry for the rank and file Bomber fans for who football means the world and who might wake up one morning to the realisation that the team they follow is about to be decimated and their heroes banished from the game for two years, some of them never to play again. The culprits here are the people who allowed it to happen who have already been punished for their role in the governance of their club, but also the AFL Commission and CEO who all saw this coming and didn't do enough to prevent it. They should all be falling on their swords because they have created a blight on the game.

Sam Lane tells us what might happen next - Football doping probe ends first phase but threat to AFL and NRL remains. And a puff piece on Hird - The fall .

Not much in that. Could just be the fish he ate or perhaps the coke he consumed. Too much fizz in the bubbles, if you know what I mean Anyway, let's not concern ourselves with the problems of others. This is supposed to be a positive thread. I think the fact that we've performed reasonably admirably away from our home ground where we play more than half of our games is a plus. We've won at Etihad and by the looks of it Traegar Park should have suited Geelong better. It looked like a long ground with narrow wings much like Simonds Stadium. The conditions wouldn't have suited us as the younger side either so all in all, we can get better.

My brief report is up on the articles board but I so like the idea of this thread that I'll repeat it here:- SOMETHING GOOD THIS WAY COMES by Whispering Jack Two weeks after the euphoria of the win over Richmond at Etihad Stadium, Melbourne catapulted back to earth and landed in the country's red centre. It wasn't a crash landing and there was a lot to like about the Demons who lost their second NAB Challenge match to a more skillful and composed Cats outfit at Traeger Park, Alice Springs by a mere 13 points. I have this feeling that the final margin might be a little flattering in view of the fact that the Demons achieved the result with the benefit of substantially less scoring shots, half the number of forward entries inside fifty metres and with the benefit of three nine-point supergoals which won't be available in the regular season but there were lots of positives among all of this including the comeback in the second quarter after a slow start and keeping Geelong goalless in the last. While we should never be happy with a defeat, the way the team performed produced an interesting conundrum for the club's coaching panel which opens the door for a positive future. Melbourne exceeded 400 disposals for the second time in a row but had far less inside 50's (31 to 62). which means that if Paul Roos can work out how his team can translate 444 touches into a lot more than 31 inside 50's there will be plenty to look forward to as the season unfolds. We are in the very early days of the Roos era and one would expect that he's been working on the answer for some time because it's not exactly a new phenomenon at the club. Part of the answer is to do away with a few of the less skilled players and therefore reduce the abysmal disposal and bad decision-making that results in bad turnovers and another part is to inject a few key talls - Frawley and Garland into the defence and Dawes and Clark into the forward line. The Roos style will get better and with the right personnel, I expect it will give his charges a good chance against all but the top sides this season. Certainly, the addition of Vince, Tyson, Cross and Michie to the midfield and the promise of young Hogan were all major plusses and I couldn't help but wonder what might have been had Kennedy-Harris been given another run instead of sending him off to the backblocks of Gippsland. We could be onto some good things in the near future and perhaps looking at up to 10 wins. Melbourne 0.3.0.18 2.5.0.48 2.7.1.61 3.9.3.84 Geelong 0.6.5.41 0.8.6.54 0.14.9.93 0.14.13.97 Supergoals Melbourne N Jones Michie Vince Geelong Nil Goals Melbourne Howe 2 Bail Cross Hogan N Jones Michie Toumpas Trengove Geelong Brown 3 Bartel Duncan Taylor 2 Caddy Hawkins Horlin-Smith Varcoe, Walker Best Melbourne Vince Tyson Cross N Jones Michie Dunn Geelong Duncan Caddy Johnson Bartel Horlin-Smith Rivers Injuries Melbourne Toumpas (head) Geelong Selwood (hamstring) Reports Melbourne Nil Geelong Billie Smedts for striking Jimmy Toumpas in the third quarter Umpires Fleer Wenn Deboy Attendance 5,378 at TIO Traeger Park in Alice Springs

Two weeks after the euphoria of the win over Richmond at Etihad Stadium, Melbourne catapulted back to earth and landed in the country's red centre. It wasn't a crash landing and there was a lot to like about the Demons who lost their second NAB Challenge match to a more skillful and composed Cats outfit at Traeger Park, Alice Springs by a mere 13 points. I have this feeling that the final margin might be a little flattering in view of the fact that the Demons achieved the result with the benefit of substantially less scoring shots, half the number of forward entries inside fifty metres and with the benefit of three nine-point supergoals which won't be available in the regular season but there were lots of positives among all of this including the comeback in the second quarter after a slow start and keeping Geelong goalless in the last. While we should never be happy with a defeat, the way the team performed produced an interesting conundrum for the club's coaching panel which opens the door for a positive future. Melbourne exceeded 400 disposals for the second time in a row but had far less inside 50's (31 to 62). which means that if Paul Roos can work out how his team can translate 444 touches into a lot more than 31 inside 50's there will be plenty to look forward to as the season unfolds. We are in the very early days of the Roos era and one would expect that he's been working on the answer for some time because it's not exactly a new phenomenon at the club. Part of the answer is to do away with a few of the less skilled players and therefore reduce the abysmal disposal and bad decision-making that results in bad turnovers and another part is to inject a few key talls - Frawley and Garland into the defence and Dawes and Clark into the forward line. The Roos style will get better and with the right personnel, I expect it will give his charges a good chance against all but the top sides this season. Certainly, the addition of Vince, Tyson, Cross and Michie to the midfield and the promise of young Hogan were all major plusses and I couldn't help but wonder what might have been had Kennedy-Harris been given another run instead of sending him off to the backblocks of Gippsland. We could be onto some good things in the near future and perhaps looking at up to 10 wins. Melbourne 0.3.0.18 2.5.0.48 2.7.1.61 3.9.3.84 Geelong 0.6.5.41 0.8.6.54 0.14.9.93 0.14.13.97 Supergoals Melbourne N Jones Michie Vince Geelong Nil Goals Melbourne Howe 2 Bail Cross Hogan N Jones Michie Toumpas Trengove Geelong Brown 3 Bartel Duncan Taylor 2 Caddy Hawkins Horlin-Smith Varcoe, Walker Best Melbourne Vince Tyson Cross N Jones Michie Dunn Geelong Duncan Caddy Johnson Bartel Horlin-Smith Rivers Injuries Melbourne Toumpas (head) Geelong Selwood (hamstring) Reports Melbourne Nil Geelong Billie Smedts for striking Jimmy Toumpas in the third quarter Umpires Fleer Wenn Deboy Attendance 5,378 at TIO Traeger Park in Alice Springs

Not universally if you consider dream team points from the game. Player X finished just in the top half equal with Jimmy Toumpas and ahead of the co-captain who you sponsor Redleg. And well ahead of the likes of Tom McDonald and Sam Blease not to mention youngsters like Dom Barry and Max King. Contrary to popular misconception, statistics don't lie.

Not quite top four but I suppose if you said that after playing last year's 5th and 2nd teams, you would have 1 winand 1 loss with a %age over 100% you would take it every time:Hawthorn 2 - - 272 76 357.9 8 West Coast 2 - - 220 101 217.8 8 Adelaide 2 - - 218 120 181.7 8 Geelong 2 - - 201 186 108.1 8 Richmond 1 1 208 174 119.5 4 Sydney 1 1 - 152 147 103.4 4 Melbourne 1 1 - 182 181 100.6 4 Western Bulldogs 1 1 - 136 153 88.9 4 Carlton 1 1 - 161 192 83.8 4 Port Adelaide 1 1 - 149 184 81.0 4 Gold Coast 1 1 - 149 195 75.4 4 Fremantle 1 1 - 161 217 74.2 4 Brisbane 1 1 - 129 213 60.6 4 Essendon * - 2 - 154 180 85.5 0 St. Kilda - 1 - 56 67 83.6 0 Collingwood - 2 -178 228 78.1 0 North Melbourne - 2 - 146 218 67.0 0 GWS Giants - 1 - 75 115 65.2 0 So we'll finish the NAB Challenge inside the top 8.

I'm not because the minute we agree we're happy with a performance in which the opposition got the ball into their forward 50 twice as many times as us, then we're lowering our standards. There were positives that need to be accentuated by the coach, there are some very good players still to come into our best 22 and we know we can improve ... but happy? No because we can do better.

The challenge might be short-lived because the first issue they would have to deal with is whether the Courts have the jursidiction to decide on the matter. The AFL and the players are party to the WADA Code and as such, have agreed voluntarily to waive sovereign law in favour of the Code. There are overseas precedents which indicate that the courts are loathe to interfere in those circumstances. For all his huffing and puffing, Lance Armstrong submitted without a legal challenge once hooked. There is a right of appeal against decisions arising from the issue of infraction notices - the Court of Arbitration in Sport (and good luck to anyone who appeals to this body who has been injected as part of a systematic programme such as the one described in the ASADA Interim Report). We know there have been a multitude of witnesses who gave evidence to ASADA and the ACC and though we don't know who all of them are, there were people who injected the players and given that the clinic across the way from Windy Hill was under ACC surveillance, there could well be evidence taken from nurses or wire taps or any number of other types of evidence that could give the game away for the Bombers without requiring Dank's words.

The remarkable thing is that we exceeded 400 disposals for the second time in a row but had far less inside 50's (31 to 62). If Paul Roos can work out how we can translate 444 touches into a lot more than 31 inside 50's, we might have something going for us. Part of the answer is to do away with a few of the less skilled players and therefore reduce the abysmal disposal and bad decision-making that results in bad turnovers and another part is to inject a few key talls - Frawley and Garland into the defence and Dawes and Clark into the forward line. The Roos style will get better and with the right personnel would give us a good chance against all but the top sides this season. We could be looking at up to 10 wins.

Let's not forget this is only a practice game, one of 18 in a row.

A few years back, we played Hawthorn in round 1 and the Hawks had a long injury list. I had high hopes of a win because their squad looked relatively weak for the Hawks. They still creamed us so the moral of the story is ...

Patrick Smith's view on Dank - Post-inquiry, star of peptide show will be a thespian without a stage Damning.

It's definitely an art and there's no abstraction involved even when the person being interviewed is determined to say nothing. I've attended interviews as an observer where interviewees who were determined to reveal nothing but were expertly coaxed into making disclosures by expert interviewers. Sometimes, something seemingly innocuous like a person's body language can tell you something that can be used in later examinations if matters go to court. In any event, you don't give up the ghost because you think the interviewee won't talk (unless you believe that you have sufficient to go on to prove your case).

ASADA wants to sidestep legal action, judging by chief's senate admission ... and ... Masters is usually right on the ball and we could hear more from him if he appears on this week's edition of Offsiders on ABC1 (and Robbo and Whateley are certain to be entertaining with their spin on AFL360). Both codes are facing difficult years in 2014 which could be a disaster for Essendon (I think Cronulla are stuffed no matter what) and almost certainly will be Demetriou's final one at the helm of the AFL. As an aside, the Weapon's case against the Bombers is proceeding and I believe we will hear a lot more from the Fairfax investigative reporters Baker and McKenzie before this plays out. We also have Mark Thompson coaching at Essendon, Doc Reid back as the club doctor and James Hird coach-in-waiting ready to take back his old job in August. Dramatic and sad times ahead for the sport.

Let's not have mindless speculation here please.

Somebody's come up with the idea that whenever Essendon gets mentioned until such time (if any) they're cleared of wrongdoing, there should be an asterisk next to their name so I'm going to follow that with our exclusive unofficial NAB Challenge ladder:Hawthorn 2 - - 272 76 357.9 8 West Coast 2 - - 220 101 217.8 8 Adelaide 2 - - 218 120 181.7 8 Richmond 1 1 208 174 119.5 4 Melbourne 1 - - 98 84 116.7 4 Sydney 1 1 - 152 147 103.4 4 Geelong 1 - - 104 102 102.0 4 Western Bulldogs 1 1 - 136 153 88.9 4 Carlton 1 1 - 161 192 83.8 4 Port Adelaide 1 1 - 149 184 81.0 4 Gold Coast 1 1 - 149 195 75.4 4 Fremantle 1 1 - 161 217 74.2 4 Brisbane 1 1 - 129 213 60.6 4 Essendon * - 2 - 154 180 85.5 0 St. Kilda - 1 - 56 67 83.6 0 Collingwood - 2 -178 228 78.1 0 North Melbourne - 2 - 146 218 67.0 0 GWS Giants - 1 - 75 115 65.2 0 To those detractors of this concept, let me say that this is the second consecutive improvement in a Melbourne's ladder position - something that hasn't happened for a while and we haven't played for almost two weeks.

The point I'm making is an entirely different one. There is an art to interrogation which often draws out responses from a witness that are useful in establishing what did or did not occur even in the case of poor or untruthful witnesses. I'm of the view that there must be a case for the issue of infraction notices if they're not making use of the opportunity to interview Dank. On the other hand, if they don't have enough evidence and they don't avail themselves of the opportunity to interview him then it's a whitewash and I don't believe the judge would allow his reputation to be tarnished in that way.

If anyone goes thinking they're going to learn something about the Essendon drug programme, they'd be mistaken -

But to suggest that an investigator would not bother interviewing a major player on the basis that you suspect he's a difficult but to crack suggests to me that there's more of a problem with the investigator than the witness. In this case, if Dank isn't interviewed at all and there are no infractions to report, the outcome would smell to high heaven.

I understand that Redleg would like player X served with an infraction notice although there's no suggestion the bloke even touched a peptide.

My reading of the ASADA interim report combined with the fact that Dank is said to have been the architect of Essendon's supplements programme, then implemented it (which including the ordering of the supplements), I think you would have to at least interview him. The ACC did!

I though about this when it was first mentioned that a senior judge had been appointed to oversee ASADA's investigation and in the end I concluded that a "whitewash" involving the sweeping of both cases under the carpet would be so scandalous that it should never be entertained by a government and no judge in his right mind would involve himself in what would effectively be a totally corrupt enterprise. Furthermore, to close the file on this episode without interviewing Dank would simply add to the stench of corruption and scandal. It would almost place our government in the same filthy box as Frank Underwood in House of Cards.

Very curious - the Age reporting it this way - ASADA has completed its probe into the AFL and the NRL, says chief executive. Although I put forward my theory in this thread a while ago that a circumstantial case could be mounted against Essendon players without Dank's direct evidence I still find it extraordinary that ASADA hasn't sought to exercise its powers to interview him. Nevertheless, it doesn't look good for the Cronulla and Essendon players and we've heard nothing about the claims made about our own players. Yes ... very curious. (Robbo's earlier story has definitely been scooped - Controversial sports scientist Stephen Dank to break silence at sportsmans lunch)