Whispering_Jack

More or less but I believe that ASADA has a lot more evidence all pointing to the substance administered being TB4 and connecting that substance to injections received by specific players. I think this needs to be tested through the normal processes of an ADRVP so that as much of the truth can come out and be made public, and particularly to the players concerned. And if I was one of those players and I also believe they know who they are, I would grab the six months on offer while it's on the table if I could be assured that in turn, ASADA would fully inform me of its case and that nature of the substances I have had injected into my body. Six months is a small price to pay for that knowledge.

Yes ... our views certainly differ but that's because we're looking at anti-doping laws from a different perspective. You're concerned with the concept of punishment of the players and, in that respect, it seems harsh to deprive players who were "duped" (if they were in fact duped) of their livelihood. I'm looking at it from the perspective of a world wide epidemic that needs to be regulated and controlled and in order to do that, there are a significant number of issues including prevention, investigation and punishment where anti-doping laws have been breached. In the latter case, it has been deemed necessary to impose a strict liability standard and having been involved in administration on the athletics side going back three decades, I accept the necessity of that standard as an imperative if we want to clean up sport.

If the Federal Court is as generous to Essendon as we were in that quarter, their players will walk free.

Three quarter time and Geelong have 20 free kicks. I think its time a team's scores were indexed to the number of free kicks received. On that basis, I reckon we would have scored about 12 goals against Collingwood had we been paid 20 frees and won comfortably.

Agree with most of your conclusions but the start of your post seeks to create an analogy that's so far off the mark that it is truly as funny as the Connolly joke and the circumstantial case against it, Dean Bailey and Chris Connolly who conducted themselves in a way the AFL CEO had previously publicly indicated was permissible. The situation with our tanking prosecution was that the board did a fantastic job in the face of venomous opposition and did the right thing by its membership in settling the matter without resorting to litigation. This, despite the fact that counsel for the AFL and MFC had given advice that sanctions against the club could not be sustained in court. To its credit the club avoided the heavy cost in terms of both money and it's standing in the football community by taking the right step. In Essendon's case, the AFL never approved of peptides and had actually warned clubs about them and the reliance on sport scientists. The players have therefore been given an offer they can't refuse. Taking a six month penalty puts the players in a much better position than they should ever be placed on my reading of the WADA Code. The penalty is far more lenient than those imposed against Ahmed Saad (18 months) or Bailey and Connolly and yet the seriousness of their situation is far greater. The players need to consider it closely but I can understand that in the bully boy atmosphere that pervades in this case, they will find it hard to break ranks.

It's a big day for the sport today with Essendon taking the field for the first time since the issue of the SHOW-CAUSE notices on top of last night's results which mean that the Bombers will be in the top eight at the end of the round if they win. I imagine that there are many Bomber fans not happy with the course of the latest events re the ASADA investigation and it might be good policy for supporters to treat them with caution and respect. After all, if we lose today, our players are likely to be served with SNOW-CAUSE notices and you know how we would react to that sort of a ribbing.

It was actually 12 MFC players. There was no appearance from two of them. Dan Nicholson was presumably held back for emergency duty today and Michael Evans also did not play (mystery injury of the week?).

... came down upon his head ASADA invokes Lance Armstrong dope formula

I got this from another site. Apparently, Barrett and his former workmate Mark Robinson don't get on and there's been some aggro between them. So when Robbo became chief football writer of the HUN, Barrett piped up that, "replacing Mike Sheehan with Robbo is like replacing Sinatra with a Karaoke singer".

Welcome to the Casey nightmare of 2014!!!

The other related issue is the distinction between the "good" thymosin and the "bad" thymosin. Essendon has gone to great lengths to claim that they only received the "good" thymosin (although they have no record of what they got). The "good" variety is used to treat Hepatitis B and C and to boost the immune response in the treatment of other diseases. The "bad" thymosin (TB4) improves muscle tone, helps repair tissue and fight inflammation. Athletes have reported that injecting this peptide benefits building muscle and recovery from injuries.Dank's text to the Weapon (Robinson) in August 2011 - "Don't forget how important thymosin is. "This will be our vital cornerstone next year. "It is the ultimate assembly regulatory protein and biological modifier. "Thymosin is so effective in soft-tissue maintenance." What explanation do you reckon would be to your reasonable satisfaction? The cornerstone of the sports scientist's plan was a drug to treat hepatitis or one to help build muscle and aid soft tissue repair?

I agree with what you say and I'm staggered that McDevitt has made the offer in that way because my understanding is that previously you needed to show co-operation with ASADA and that a result of that co-operation other anti doping violators are punished.The other factor in this is how would WADA react?

You have to admit it sooner or later guys. The loss through injury of Shannon Byrnes who was our leading goalkicker earlier in the season has been a massive blow to the club.

I think the circumstances had a bit to do with it. The three "ins" are relatively fresh and given we're coming off a six day break, this could become a factor, particularly later on in the game. I hope Kent isn't the sub. After all, he kicked as many goals in the VFL last week as did the entire AFL team. His presence could be the point of difference along with the tackling strength of the two other inclusions. After an emotion charged couple of days, I can't see Essendon taking things lying down and we're going to need those attributes.

At least the Bombers will not be alone because according to this article from a journalist named Wilson and labelled "opinion" they are about to be joined by an NRL club - The Sharks will be thrown into disarray when 17 receive their show cause notices from ASADA. The Sharks don't appear to have a bulging war chest with which to mount legal proceedings and I understand they could be rendered bankrupt as a result of what's about to take place. It's not good for Australian football codes anywhere so hopefully, and I say this without a great deal of confidence, our Socceroos can give us a bit of a boost over the coming few hours.

His current place of residence might be Paris, France but it took James Albert Hird no time at all to instruct his legal representatives to file an action against ASADA in the Federal Court of Australia challenging the validity of its investigation into his club's doping programme - Hird takes own legal action against ASADA Hird claims that he is joining the Bombers in taking the action because he has " ... always believed that no Essendon player has taken performance enhancing drugs or broken ASADA, WADA or AFL laws. "I want the players' names to be cleared and want our supporters of the footy club to be proud of our great club." The action contemplated would, of course, prove no such thing because it attacks not the substance of any allegation that his players ingested banned drugs but the process by which the investigating body arrived at that conclusion. This is indeed strange coming from someone whose initial reaction was that he took full responsibility for what took place and who wanted the truth to come out. That's exactly why he and his club co-operated with the joint investigation and why his club chairman told a press conference they had agreed not to challenge its authority. If Essendon and Hird succeed in this action therefore, the players names will not be cleared in the court of public opinion but will be remembered by most for eternity as "drug cheats". Essendon, Hird, the players and their advisers need to contemplate this over the coming days, weeks and months as this all unravels. The exercise is going to be costly in terms of dollars but in many other ways, not the least of which will be the psychological toll on these people. Meanwhile ASADA has every reason to be confident of the outcome because the argument about a lack of proper process in the conduct of its investigation lacks merit. ASADA CEO Ben McDevitt:

Bang, bang Maxwell's Silver Hammer ... Dank's stunning admission

Carlton making a good fist of it against Hawthorn and clearly the benefits of publicly mouthing off at the umpires are evident. Late in the game Carlton has received a whopping 21 frees to 18.

Good point Mauriesy and I suspect that Essendon, in its haste to take the matter to the Federal Court (the decision to go there was surely made well in advance of the actual issuing of the notices) failed to appreciate the fact that McDevitt was making it clear to all and sundry that there were discounts available to players under certain circumstances. There could be a perfect opportunity to control or limit the damage but by taking on ASADA, it's likely to become an opportunity missed. Hopefully, those advising the players are smart enough to think independently of the club's interests and advise their clients of all of the possibilities available to them.

Actually my advice for Mick, if he were to ask me for it, would be to stay right away from Magpie players. If word gets out it could tarnish his reputation.

To be fair, I think Goddard was already a Bomber when the darkest day took place. However, if Crameri is one of the players to receive a show-cause notice, the Bulldogs recruiting bloke will be faced tonight. I think a few people might be lining up to sell him and the Doggies the Sydney Harbour Bridge.

So let me get this right. A few reasonable articles by Wilson written in 2014 somehow validate the rubbish she produced during her nasty little vendetta against the Melbourne Football Club two years earlier. It misses the point of the thread too because my main issue with Wilson was her editorialising dressed up as factual articles. Some of the examples put forward are actually factual articles at which she's pretty good. The problem is when she has an agenda and selectively attacks one club for perceived wrongs while looking away at those of others. Her comment about why Carlton was not pursued for tanking in 2005 to 2007 remains a classic example of sheer journalistic stupidity. On the Essendon situation, Wilson has been reasonably on the ball but I give a great deal of the credit to the investigative talents of her colleagues Baker and McKenzie whose work blew Dank's position wide open. One of the links provided was the story she produced with those two gentlemen about Dane Swan attending a fund raiser and being in the company of Mick Gatto. Despite the quality of the rest of their work, this story is both reprehensible and objectionable and demonstrates well the point I make at the beginning of this thread about the arrogance at the heart of innuendo. Sadly, the Age has diminished dramatically as a newspaper since this thread started. Co-incidentally, I picked up a copy today and looking at, it appears little different to the Herald Sun. Thankfully, Melbourne's fortunes have improved dramatically in the same time frame so I'm rather happy having a little giggle at the demise of Caro's little rag.

I just heard the Paul Little press conference on radio and, if I heard correctly, he stated in response to one question that Essendon self-reported and co-operated with the joint investigation which it is now challenging because it had agreed not to challenge the validity of the process. In other words, now that things haven't gone well for the club, they are prepared to breach that agreement. I don't think there's any basis in fact or in law for the challenge anyway but that extraordinary comment is mind boggling. I don't understand how a challenge to the process is going to help the integrity and reputation of his players either. To the contrary, a successful legal challenge on the ASADA process will still leave the question of the integrity of the players open and most of the football world would still regard them as drug cheats. Strangly enough, for a club that was calling for a swift end to the drug saga, the institution of court proceedings will only prolong it and make it harder for the players to get the minimum sanction on offer. The final nail in the coffin might be that if the saga is delayed much further, there's the possibility that ASADA or WADA might be able to apply the maximum penalty of four years rather than two which applies at the moment.

I agree that it's bad for football and it was thus since the day in 2011/12 that James Hird together with Stephen Dank decided to embark on the programme. It got dramatically worse on 7 February, 2013, deteriorated with the decision to conduct a joint AFL/ASADA investigation and then became a disaster for the code when control of the Essendon Football Club landed in Little's hands. He is now taking that club into doomsday scenario. Essendon's posturing in this instance has the potential of killing the club and whilst I will feel bad for their supporters and pity for their players, I won't cry a single tear for them.

Essendon must fight legality of ASADA-AFL investigation after show cause notices issued, Mark Robinson writes This is the most addle brained lack of logic I've read in the Herald Sun's sports pages and reflects the dramatic decline in journalistic standards at News Limited since Mike Sheahan left the building. What's wrong with fighting the case on the facts rather than the processes or allegations of lack of confidentiality? And this comes from the clown who published the names of a dozen of the Bomber players implicated. What gall!!!