Whispering_Jack

Does anyone know if Jimmy Toumpas is injured or did he go to Darwin with the Melbourne team?

I just realised there's a game on tonight ... and with Hawthorn's demise last night, the Dockers have even more incentive (if any was needed) to not only win but to win well. A win of the magnitude of the 15 goal bashing they inflicted on us a little over 12 months ago (of which we're constantly reminded by the idiot in the airport parking radio ad on SEN) would put the Dockers in with a chance to grab a top two spot sooner or later in the season. For our part, I'm hoping that we can return to the intensity displayed the last time we visited the Northern Territory when we played Port Adelaide (except for the first and last 15 minutes of that game). Is it too much to ask?

Judging by that post above from Freddy Fuschia, it must be me because I made that point at least two weeks ago about the fact that one effect of Essendon's litigation and the failure to bring about finality to this saga would be to hamper the Bombers' recruiting efforts for next year. To answer your question, ASADA has increased its lead from 15 points at quarter time to 20 points late in the second term. This, despite a lot of noise from their deranged fans in the grandstand. The AFL seems to have picked up some problems it might have to deal with by sending to the MRP. Apparently, Bomber Thompson's refusing to pay his $30k fine from a year ago. There are also some issues with medicos. Although he works for Murdoch which in the main has been cheerleading and obfuscating for the Bombers, Patrick Smith's match report in today's Australian sums it up the best ~ Caught with their pants down ... and I’m not talking about league Quite ... and it's worth shouting this from the rooftops again and again ... What were the Essendon players injected with and was it a substance banned under the WADA Code? The heckling and booing from the Bomber fans in the grandstand is nothing other than. white noise.

There's been a fair amount of sympathy for the players on the basis that they were "duped" into participating in a dubious programme that went terribly wrong for them and their club. Here's a piece that looks at drug cheating athletes from a slightly different perspective in the context of international track and field. I recommend a full read if you want to gain an understanding of what sport is up against in the world of sports science and doping ~ An open letter to Tyson Gay Gay was banned in June 2013 after testing positive for a banned anabolic steroid in two out-of-competition tests. The ban was reduced from two years by USADA due to Gay's cooperation and ended on June 23. His return to competition at yesterday's IAAF Diamond League meet in Lausanne, Switzerland saw him compete against two sprinters who have also served doping bans. Justin Gatlin won Olympic 100m gold in Athens in 2004 and bronze in London in 2012 but also served a four-year ban from 2006-10. Mike Rogers was out for nine months in 2011 after failing a drugs test. For those with Foxtel, the Lausanne meet is being shown today at 12.30pm on Eurosport Channel and the 100m race is a must for those interested in which drug cheat performs the best. It's a shame what is happening to this wonderful sport but little wonder that its losing its attraction around the world. Hopefully, this will serve as a reminder for the AFL and the football loving public to treat the anti doping scourge seriously and not give in to sentimentality about players being duped. On a lighter note, there is a sport that's not to my knowledge subject to the WADA Code but you can watch it today on ESPN and Eurosport Channel where it's being screened at various times during the day ~ the 2014 Nathan's Famous Hot Dog Eating Contest which takes place every year on 4 July at Coney Island, New York. I was lucky enough to be there a month ago today to taste one of those magnificent hot dogs (I had mine with chili sauce). Guaranteed no peptides in the recipe.

I have long maintained that the interview by Age investigative journalist Nick McKenzie with Stephen Dank mentioned in the article below was the smoking gun in the case against Essendon. The comments made by a very cocky Dank about TB4 (and about AOD9604) in this interview gave the game away in my eyes. When Dank indicated his refusal to be interviewed by ASADA and then failed to respond to its show-cause notice, it left the Bombers lamentably exposed and left it open for the case to be made out to the standard required of "reasonable satisfaction". This is because without Dank's say so, there is no alternative explanation as to the identity of one of the key drugs the Essendon players were given in the programme devised by Dank and for which James Hird once acknowledged he was responsible. Taken in conjunction with the receipts and documentation of what was delivered to the club, the SMS trail provided by convicted drug supplier Shane Charter, the properties of the "good" and the "bad" thymosin and statements given voluntarily by the players themselves, the evidence was always strongly pointing towards anti-doping violations. ASADA ups ante on Essendon I believe there's a lot more and that EFC's Federal Court action will fail as well so that some time next month, some of the players are going to become fully aware of the extent of the case against them and, like many cyclists who turned over against Lance Armstrong, those who are being well advised will act out of self-interest and in their show-cause responses, give ASADA what it wants to make out the final case against Dank, Hird and one or two others at Essendon including a long time servant whose continued presence at the club leaves me scratching my head. It will be too late to resurrect the Bombers in 2015 but no doubt they will eventually recover as Melbourne is now starting to do under Paul Roos. Will it deter others in the future from trying to do something similar? Never say never.

AA CHF the year we drafted him.

North are the enigma of the AFL. That burst of goals against Hawthorn was reminiscent of what they did to us a fortnight ago and yet last week they struggled against Brisbane.

The Demons' solid form continued when they made the trip to the Lake Oval for their Round 11 clash against South Melbourne on 4 July, 1964. After a relatively even first half Melbourne produced a dominant third quarter booting eight goals to one on the way to a 46-point victory in front of a meagre crowd of 10,490. Melbourne 4.7.31 7.9.51 15.14.104 18.21.129 South Melbourne 1.2.8 6.8.44 7.10.52 12.11.83 THE TEAM B: Neil Crompton Bernie Massey Don Williams HB: Tony Anderson Brian Roet Brian Leahy C: Brian Dixon "Hassa" Mann Frank "Bluey" Adams HF: Bryan Kenneally Graeme Jacobs Barrie Vagg F: Bob "Tassie" Johnson Barry Bourke Owen Zinko FOLL: Graham Wise Ron Barassi John Townsend 19/20: Ken Emselle Peter McLean Goals Graeme Jacobs 5 John Townsend Owen Zinko 3 Barrie Vagg 2 Ron Barassi Ken Emselle Tassie Johnson Bryan Kenneally Brian Leahy Best Ron Barassi Bryan Kenneally John Townsend Frank "Bluey" Adams Graeme Jacobs Graeme Jacobs had a break out game at full forward as the red hot Demons continued their surge to the top of the VFL ladder. Melbourne also had good wins in their Reserves and Under 19s against the Swans.

Sir Craig Reedie: This isn’t simply a fight against drugs; it’s an ongoing battle to protect clean athletes "People have a right to be cynical about sportsmen and women but rather than assume that we are in a never-ending fight against doping, in reality our goals are more aligned with protecting the clean athlete."

Fair dinkum unbelievable! Essendon players shrug off cancer talk First it was Little and now it's Bomber Thompson telling the world that they know what the players were injected with on thousands of occasions after we've all been led to believe that the records have been lost or eaten by Hirdy's dog (except for that one bottle labelled "good thymosin" that mysteriously turned up in someone's locker at about 3.00am after Dank's Tb4 goof in the Baker & McKenzie interview). I'm looking forward to the release of the documentation that proves what he's saying, which of the supplements actual aids the treatment of cancer and why they were treating supposedly healthy footballers with the stuff.

Two sons of former Demons there in Billy Stretch and Darcy Moore. I also wonder if Darcy Parish is related to the late Les "Salty" Parish better known as Fitzroy player who transferred to Melbourne from North Melbourne late in his career. The way things are going we could have three of those players if we finish low enough (I'm not suggesting anything, nor am I trying to be funny) and we lost James Frawley with a 1st round draft selection as compo. If that happened we could take Brayshaw, Petracca and Stretch (f/s) - all different types of midfielders to give us a boost in an area where we are slowly improving.

Not sure binman but I think so.

The PR war isn't confined to Newscorp either. Lawyer and Deakin University lecturer Martin Hardie who has worked as an adviser for the EFC has come up with this gem as reported by Jon Pierik - AFL chief medico Peter Harcourt may have breached Essendon drugs agreement, says lawyer I love these "non-disparagement clauses" which in this case means that the AFL isn't allowed to make disparaging remarks about parties that have been found to have committed breaches of governance serious enough to have warranted a $2m fine, being kicked out of a finals series, loss of draft picks and suspension of staff and officials just so that the guilty parties can come out of it all smelling like roses. So what does the article prove about the matter at hand? That the AFL is no less grubby than the EFC which Hardie slavishly follows? I'll say one other thing as well even though I haven't seen the settlement agreement which Hardie claims was breached by Harcourt. In all probability, it will also contain a "confidentiality" clause which prevents the parties and their agents from disclosing its contents. And if I'm right, then who is guilty of breaching the confidentiality clause in the settlement terms? Anyway, it's all just another side issue. Hopefully, we'll get to the gist of the matter some day soon.

The stepping up of the PR war has been quite extraordinary and naturally the Murdoch empire whose Chief Executive, one Robert Thomson directs News Corp from New York and is a devoted Bomber fan, has been to the fore of that campaign. Earlier this week News Limited publications sensationally revealed AFL chief medical officer Peter Harcourt's speech at a FIFA anti-doping sports conference in Zurich last November where he spoke of the AFL's suspicions of Essendon's illegal use of peptides and how blood samples were sent by ASADA to Cologne for testing. The Hird camp maintains that Harcourt's revelations are proof of some illegal joint investigation between ASADA and the AFL. Last night on AFL360 the two hosts were involved in a discussion about the fact that the samples were negative i.e they showed nothing irregular in the players' blood. Whateley was convinced that this virtually exonerates the players and maintained indignance on their behalf. Robinson grinned along in agreement. They miss the entire point of why world sport needs a stringent anti doping code with strict liability and an across the board standard of proof that will differ from the sovereign laws that apply to various countries around the world. We need these laws because of sports scientists who operate ahead of the game with their technology and science to achieve a competitive advantage for their clients. Let's take the case of a mythical athlete who I will call Lance A. In late 2011 and early 2012 he undertakes a supplements programme supervised by sports scientist D. He is injected with an untested drug called UBeaut which aids muscular development and also ingests a masking agent called Zorro which makes it difficult for current testing technology to detect the presence in Lance A's system of UBeaut and any other chemicals he's been taking along the way. Zorro is also a prohibited substance. Then in July, 2012 USADA take Lance A's blood sample. You can be pretty certain that in August, 2012 the test results will come back negative because they don't even have a test for UBeaut. As technology improves - perhaps in five year's time, a laboratory might be able to detect the presence of UBeaut and/or Zorro in the blood sample if someone cares to look at that time but for now, Lance A is happily going about breaking world records in the 50k walk and living the high life off the back of million dollar endorsements from some chocolate bar company while his rival Fred B, a clean athlete struggles and has to sell some of his trophies just to make ends meet. How Did Lance Armstrong Avoid a Positive Doping Test? That is why the WADA Code doesn't just apply to impose sanctions on athletes who provide positive samples to their blood tests. There are a number of other ways to prove that an athlete has committed an anti doping violation and I have discussed these previously in this thread. Unfortunately, it takes a lot more time and a great deal more detective work via the indirect methods to prove one's case against an offending athlete, especially when you're dealing with a sporting organisation which claims to have "lost" all records relating to its supplements programme except for one convenient vial of the "good UBeaut" which was found in the bootstudder's locker. It's my understanding that ASADA has the power to operate in conjunction with other authorities when investigating suspected offenders but of course, that matter is now in the hands of Middleton J in the Federal Court and thankfully, not with Foxtel, the Herald Sun, the Australian or even the Age.

Open letter to members Paul Little ~ Funny but I thought that Essendon didn't know what supplements the players had taken so how can Little say he has independent advice on the their effect on the players. Are Essendon members dumb enough to cop this garbage?note: A rhetorical question is one that is asked merely for effect with no answer expected. Caro on Paul Little ~ Essendon chairman says Hird will return a better person

Even Rohan Connolly ... Essendon supplements saga becomes AFL's Watergate. Slams just about everyone and everything involved in this whole sordid affair but it won't alter the fact that Essendon's attempt to absolve itself from culpability by obstructing the ASADA process will not change anything and certainly not the fact that TB4 was among the cocktail of bad medicines injected into a number of Essendon players in 2012.

South Australia wins back-to-back U18 championships Vic Metro 1.3.9 5.6.36 7.9.51 10.10 (70) South Australia 4.1.25 5.6.36 8.8.56 11.13 (79) GOALS Vic Metro: Laverde 3, Miller 2, Ahern, Moore, Payne, Castagna, De Goey South Australia: Hone 4, Daniel 3, Carey 2, Read, Rose BEST Vic Metro: Laverde, De Goey, Petracca, Ahern, Miller, Brayshaw South Australia: Daniel, Hone, Neal-Bullen, Stretch, Rose, Carey

U18 champs: Last-gasp goal sinks Vic Country and snaps WA's losing streak Vic Country 4.3.27 9.3.57 10.4.64 10.5 (65) Western Australia 2.1.13 5.4.34 8.7.55 9.13 (67) GOALS Vic Country: Webb 4, McCartin 2, Dixon, Evans, Wilson, Lonie Western Australia: Cripps 2, Creeper 2, Anderson 2, Palfrey, Pickett, Smith BEST Vic Country: Webb, Butler, Mathieson, Goddard, Cunico, Howe Western Australia: Blakely, Hardisty, Keitel, Smith, Giblett, Garlett

The media war seems to have been stepped up by all sides over the past 24 hours. Some Essendon tragics a appear to have picked up on Dr. Peter Harcourt's comments about sending players' samples to a Cologne laboratory "but nothing came out of it". They claim this means there were no illegal drugs involved. What Harcourt didn't tell was about the timing of the tests which is all-important in detection. It often takes years before testing methods are sophisticated enough to locate some substances in the samples. Others are claiming his comments are proof of an illegal joint investigation which is more rubbish. An interesting item is the revelation that Dank is withdrawing an appeal to the AAT against the ADVRP Stephen Dank withdraws appeal against drugs panel with administrative appeals tribunal. The fact that he had lodged the appeal early last month would be news to many. We don't know why he's changed his mind. Is it because of the costs involved or was there a deal done with ASADA? I wonder if we'll ever find out? The one I like the most is about Essendon players determined to protect their anonymity. Strangely enough, before Mark Robinson of the Herald Sun announced the names of 14 current and former Essendon players supposedly involved in the scandal, neither the AFL, nor Essendon, nor the AFLPA, nor any player took any steps to protect reputations by preventing publication of the names. Now, why do I think the reason might have something to do with the identity of the party that leaked the names to Robinson in the first place?

The judge disagrees that it's a conspiracy so let's forget that talk. I think most of the football world really wants the facts to come out. Two months of legal posturing whilst acceptable because the law has to afford rights to the parties, is enough. I look forward to a just outcome and IMO that means a hearing of the substantive issue which is whether or not Essendon players had TB4 ingested into their systems. All the rest is sizzle and without a hearing of the facts relating to the EFC programme, the reality is that every one of its 2012 list will be regarded by the majority as drug cheats as will their club and key personnel - including the golden haired boy.

I'm sceptical. He was a 6 week proposition two or three weeks ago and ATM is classified as 426. If they're a week out, the best he can get is a one week cameo. I would be more comfortable if he's given a programme that will see him at his best in Round 1, 2015.

Disappointed at the negativity towards Sam Blease who has been collecting a decent amount of possessions in a dyslexic team that struggles to function. I would like to see JKH and Tapscott and him go to Darwin. I know that you have to earn your spot etc but some of the younger blokes like Salem and Kent looked tired and didn't perform well last week. Give them a rest and see how Blease and Tapscott perform when they're playing for their football lives. Give them the next few games and what can we lose?

I say we should live with it. For every mistake made by the umpires, our own players committed half a dozen. If we can reduce or eliminate our mistakes we'll soon start winning - and winning well against similar quality opposition.

I haven't kept up to speed with today's events at the Federal Court but I understand that David Grace QC has indicated that the players don't want to be joined in the action without the ability to retain their anonymity. I believe the judge who has the discretion to do so (in which case they might be identified by a number e.g Player A ... Player AH etc) but is mulling over whether this is appropriate. It looks like we'll have to wait till Friday before he gives his decision on this. No doubt, he is considering whether anonymity is warranted in the circumstances. The players have not been charged with let alone been found guilty of anything. The AFL, EFC and the players are all signatories to the WADA Code and AFL anti doping code so they have signed on to the system that involves show-cause notices. They have also reportedly been offered a deal that, if accepted, would see them take reduced sanctions without being labelled drug cheats. Some players who most likely are included in the 34 were named by Mark Robinson a while ago in the Herald Sun. The entire list of Essendon players (about 44) from 2012 is publicly available so, in fact, the publication of the players' names as being parties to this action, might not harm their reputations anyway because they are associated with the Bomber's alleged doping programme so if anything, it would assist the reputations of the 10 or so EFC players form their 2012 list who haven't been served with show-cause notices. Anyway, the cash registers keep ticking over in favour of the legal profession

I think you're basically right in concluding that ASADA does have power to join in/co-operate with sporting bodies and that is what IMO is the issue in this case. Therefore, if it comes down to process and whether ASADA has not handled some aspects of accumulating its evidence, it will be extremely difficult for the judge to give EFC and Hird what they want. At best they might have the odd piece of evidence taken out but I think the pieces the Applicants are addressing won't be enough to prevent making infraction notices stick.