Whispering_Jack

I agree with your observations about Robbie MO but I don't believe there will ever be another like him and I'm more convinced having watched some of the You Tubes floating about on the Internet and social media. Having said that, I recognise that we sorely need some champions at the club and without meaning any offence to Robbie and his memory, I think we need more than one player of supreme brilliance. If we can pick up a couple of champion/star quality players and a few A graders or potential A graders then we're more likely to improve our overall list than if we discover one great player and the rest turn out to be duds.

Fair enough - shall do. The thread will be pinned up for a week and then we'll give it some thought to pinning it up again before the draft.

After reading this article on Sam Frost I have mixed emotions ~ Blake finally breaks his silence on Sam Frost split

I looked up the 2014 NAB AFL U18 All Australian team and found very few from SA and certainly far fewer than the number you would normally expect from the national champions:- Defenders: Harrison Wigg (South Australia), Ed Vickers-Willis (VIC- Metro/Sandringham Dragons), Josh McGuinness (Tasmania), Darcy Tucker (Vic Country/North Ballarat Rebels), Caleb Marchbank (Vic Country/Murray Bushrangers), Angus Brayshaw (Vic Metro/Sandringham Dragons) Midfield: Paul Ahern (Vic Metro/Calder Cannons), Christian Petracca (Vic Metro/Eastern Ranges), Peter Wright (Vic Metro/Calder Cannons), Isaac Heeney (NSW/ACT), Jake Johansen (South Australia), Billy Stretch (South Australia) Forwards: Callum Mills (NSW/ACT), Darcy Moore (Vic Metro/Oakleigh Chargers), Rhys Mathieson (Vic Country/Geelong Falcons), Jayden Laverde (Vic Metro/Western Jets), Patrick McCartin (Vic Country/Geelong Falcons), Caleb Daniel (South Australia) Interchange: Connor Blakely (Western Australia), Ben Keays (Queensland), Darcy Parish (Vic Country/Geelong Falcons), Jack Steele (NSW/ACT)

South Australia has been strong in the AFL Under 18 National Championships in recent years but they haven't produced a proportionate number of draft picks. This year the Croweaters won the Division 1 championship and were far and away the best team - I think they might have lost just one game after all teams played each other twice. They must have been a champion team rather than a team of champions because their players don't seem to rate among three of the best Phantom Draft gurus on bigfooty:- KNIGHTMARE 1. St Kilda - Christian Petracca Eastern Ranges 2. Melbourne - Angus Brayshaw Sandringhan Dragons 3. Greater Western Sydney Jake Lever Calder Cannons 4. Brisbane - Patrick McCartin Geelong Falcons 5. Western Bulldogs Peter Wright Calder Cannons 6. Carlton - Sam Durdin West Adelaide 7. Gold Coast Jayden Laverde Western Jets 8. Collingwood Darcy Moore Oakleigh Chargers 9. Adelaide Jarrod Pickett South Fremantle 10. West Coast Paul Ahern Calder Cannons 11. Richmond Liam Duggan Western Jets 12. Fremantle - Caleb Marchbank Murray Bushrangers 13. Geelong Hugh Goddard Geelong Falcons 14. Gold Coast Lachlan Weller Broadbeach 15. North Melbourne Connor Menadue Western Jets 16. Port Adelaide Jordan De Goey Oakleigh Chargers 17 Hawthorn Connor Blakely Swan Districts 18. Sydney Isaac Heeney Cardiff 19. Essendon Peter Bampton Norwood 20. Greater Western Sydney - Corey Ellis Western Jets CHRIS 25 1. St Kilda - Christian Petracca Eastern Ranges 2. Melbourne - Angus Brayshaw Sandringhan Dragons 3. Greater Western Sydney - Jake Lever Calder Cannons 4. Brisbane - Patrick McCartin Geelong Falcons 5. Western Bulldogs - Peter Wright Calder Cannons 6. Carlton - Lachie Weller Broadbeach 7. Gold Coast - Jordan DeGoey Oakleigh Chargers 8. Collingwood - Darcy Moore Oakleigh Chargers 9. Adelaide - Jayden Laverde Western Jets 10. West Coast - Jarrod Pickett South Fremantle 11. Richmond - Hugh Goddard Geelong Falcons 12. Fremantle - Sam Durdin West Adelaide 13. Geelong - Jack Steele Belconnen 14. Gold Coast - Paul Ahern Calder Cannons 15. North Melbourne - Liam Duggan Western Jets 16. Port Adelaide - Tom Lamb Dandenong Stingrays 17. Hawthorn - Kyle Langford Northern Knights 18. Sydney - Isaac Heeney Cardiff 19. Essendon - Jackson Nelson Geelong Falcons 20. Greater Western Sydney - Josh Glenn Central Districts PAIGE CARDONA 1. St. Kilda Christian Petracca Eastern Ranges 2. Melbourne Angus Brayshaw Sandringham Dragons 3. Greater Western Sydney - Jake Lever Calder Cannons 4. Brisbane - Patrick McCartin Geelong Falcons 5. Western Bulldogs Peter Wright Calder Cannons 6. Carlton Sam Durdin West Adelaide 7. Gold Coast Jayden Laverde Western Jets 8. Collingwood Darcy Moore Oakleigh Chargers 9. Adelaide Hugh Goddard Geelong Falcons 10. West Coast Jarrod Pickett South Fremantle 11. Richmond Paul Ahern Calder Cannons 12. North Melbourne Caleb Marchbank Murray Bushrangers 13. Port Adelaide Liam Duggan Western Jets 14. Geelong Kyle Langford Northern Knights 15. Gold Coast Lachie Weller Broadbeach 16. Fremantle Jordan De Goey Oakleigh Chargers 17. Sydney Isaac Heeney Cardiff 18. Hawthorn Corey Ellis Western Jets 19. Essendon Jackson Nelson Geelong Falcons 20. Greater Western Sydney Brayden Maynard Sandringham Dragons Only Sam Durdin, a highly rated tall KFP player makes it into all three phantom drafts. Peter Bampton and Josh Glenn each make it as late draft picks in only one phantom draft. Do any keen draft watchers have an explanation for the anomaly? Are our draft experts too Victoria-centric and are there some bargains available here because the recruiters might hold similar views. [note: Billy Stretch would also be expected to be close to 20 by some but due to the father son nomination, he's been slotted in by Knightmare and Chris25 as going on the second round and by Paige as a third rounder.]

Never in doubt and well done to all concerned.

And on that assessment we'll get him for a 4th round pick.

Watching the vision brings back so many memories. I'm convinced now that he was the most skilful player the game has ever seen. As Joni Mitchell wrote in her song:- "Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got 'Till it's gone" ...

Go Dees!

Jake Stringer and Jackson Macrae were taken with picks four and five at the 2012 AFL National Draft and both have moved way ahead of our choice at pick three (Jimmy Toumpas) which means that it would be madness on the part of the Bulldogs to trade either of them out simply to improve draft position by a few places. However, the success of that pair probably strengthens Redlegs view about not parting with picks two and three unless a very strong trade comes along. If we are to deal with the Bullies, I would like to see a player of much better quality than Tutt and there's also the possibility of them throwing in a draft pick as well, especially now that they look like picking up a compensatory pick for losing Shaun Higgins. Incidentally, they are looking at getting pick 26 for Higgins which may well be the case but it surely demonstrates their hypocrisy in suggesting Frawley wasn't worth pick three. What did they think he was worth? Pick 23 which is the pick after our second round selection?

I've commented in the past about this idea of sympathy for the players and, whilst the argument might have some merit on the face of it, AFL players have it drummed into them from the moment they get inducted into the system (and often before if they come from the elite junior levels) the protocols involved with ingesting any substances into their bodies. The same applies to athletes in almost every other sport played at the highest levels so why should AFL players get preferential treatment over say, Chinese swimmers or Bulgarian weightlifters many of them young and under the influence of their team coaches? Here's an interesting piece on the quest to stamp out the abuse of performance enhancing drugs from sport ~ THE LAWYER WHO TOOK DOWN LANCE ARMSTRONG IS ON A MISSION TO END THE CULTURE OF CHEATING

Good luck fellers. I'm still at the other side of town with little prospect of being able to get there do please do the colours proud for all of us and good luck to the new coaching panel!

On those figures, there's every chance that a club will put its hand up early for Billy Stretch tomorrow and he will cost us a second round pick. My guess would have been Port Adelaide but I suppose they don't want to mess up their chances of getting Paddy Ryder. The other player who caught my eye (on the vision I saw from the All Stars v AIS game and these numbers only) is Nakia Cockatoo. He's starting to sound very much like a top 20 prospect. Here's the Bound for Glory take on the sliders and bolters of the combine. Paige has developed a lot of cred with her assessments in recent years.

Combine results: who stole the show? 2014 NAB AFL DRAFT COMBINE STANDOUT RESULTS 3km time trial (minutes : seconds) Jack Hiscox 9:18 Tom Lamb 9:45 Alex Neal-Bullen 9:54 Billy Stretch 9:57 Nathan Drummond 9:59 Josh Deluca-Cardillo 10:07 Daniel McKenzie 10:07 Connor Menadue 10:07 Liam Duggan 10:11 Jack Steele 10:11 Beep test/shuttle run (level) Caleb Daniel 16.1 Jack Hiscox 16.1 Nathan Drummond 15.9 Tom Lamb 15.5 Ed Langdon 15.3 Jarrod Garlett 15.2 Alex Neal-Bullen 15.2 Jason Castagna 15.2 Billy Stretch 15.1 Jack Steele 15.1 Jordan Cunico 14.12 Christian Petracca 14.12 Kicking test (score out of 30) Nakia Cockatoo 29 Daniel Howe 28 Kyle Langford 28 Toby McLean 27 Michael Mattingly 27 Nathan Drummond 27 Dean Gore 27 Brett Eddy 27 Clem Smith 26 Liam Duggan 26 Brayden Maynard 26 Jack Steele 26 Ed Vickers-Willis 26 Mitch McGovern 26 Clean hands test (score out of 30) Nathan Drummond 26 Paddy Brophy 26 Reece McKenzie 26 Tyler Keitel 26 Dougal Howard 26 Michael Mattingly 25 Brett Eddy 25 Caleb Daniel 25 Jake Johansen 25 Jarrod Garlett 25 Brydan Hodgson 25 Marc Pittonet 25 Liam Dawson 25 Jack Cripps 25 Goalkicking test (score out of 30) Dean Gore 30 Keenan Ramsey 30 Nathan Drummond 25 Paddy Brophy 25 Michael Mattingly 25 Liam Dawson 25 Cory Gregson 25 Aidan Anderson 25 Dougal Howard 24 Jarrod Garlett 24 Jack Cripps 24 Bailey Dale 24 Declan Hamilton 24 20 metre sprint results (sec) Marvin Baynham 2.81 Oleg Markov 2.87 Jarrod Pickett 2.87 Reece McKenzie 2.87 Connor Menadue 2.88 Nakia Cockatoo 2.90 Ed Langdon 2.92 Paddy Brophy 2.93 Conor McKenna 2.93 Nathan Drummond 2.93 Agility results (sec) Clem Smith 8.09 Daniel McKenzie 8.10 Conor McKenna 8.12 Jarrod Pickett 8.13 Teia Miles 8.27 Lukas Webb 8.28 Josh McGuinness 8.33 Billy Stretch 8.33 Kyle Langford 8.36 Jack Lonie 8.37 Repeat sprint results (sec) Nakia Cockatoo 23.93 Nathan Drummond 23.95 Daniel Nielson 23.99 Daniel McKenzie 24.02 Ed Langdon 24.06 Oleg Markov 24.14 Connor Menadue 24.14 Conor McKenna 24.16 Matthew Goodyear 24.49 Jack Hiscox 24.36 Standing vertical jump (cm) Marvin Baynham 88 Jarrod Garlett 76 Nathan Drummond 76 Christian Petracca 74 Nakia Cockatoo 73 James Rose 73 Dean Gore 72 Nicholas Coughlan 72 Evan Bruinsma 72 Reece McKenzie 72 Tom Read 72 Running vertical jump (cm) Evan Bruinsma 97 Marvin Baynham 95 Daniel McKenzie 94 Billy Gowers 93 Nathan Drummond 90 Nakia Cockatoo 89 Matthew Uebergang 87 Mitch McGovern 87 James Rose 87 Matthew Hammelmann 87

If he doesn't make it at AFL, perhaps we might see him in the Olympics?

Are any clubs whinging that the pick is too high compensation for a spud like Higgins who has hardly played any good footy for about three years?

I get that's your position, that there are plenty of others who hold it and are entitled to have those views.It's just that I don't accept the narrow view of history that goes with the acceptance of the theory. I believe there's a lot more to all this that meets the eye, that it requires a disinterested observer to research and chronicle the club's recent history and that at some stage in the future the truth will come out (and if they're competent they'll check their information a little more thoroughly and competently than Wilson did on the "sacking" of Hird and on the AOD9604 matter which I referred to above). Whether it ends up being in agreement with your particular view is something that may or may not be recognised at some future time. Hopefully, we'll find out one way or the other but that's not what this thread is about. Nevertheless, the same thing holds for the Essendon saga and, contrary to what you say, I do believe Caro's sources and her agenda are very relevant to how she presents her narrative because of her agenda and the way she tries to push her opinions as fact. There's a lawyer by the name of Martin Hardie who I've quoted here in the past. His views are unambiguously pro-Essendon and he's writing a book on this saga that will no doubt paint James Hird as an angel right out of heaven. I won't believe him either.

Hey Qwerty30. I said the AFL is "one of her main sources" because I've been told by a number of sources that I regards as being extremely reliable that she is one of the first people in the journalistic profession who the AFL will give a story to and I know enough about the profession works in other spheres to know also that there's always an element of "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" about these things. Caro does a lot of shilling for the AFL but she also does have other sources. That she had an agenda against Schwab and co is hardly surprising; nor is it surprising that other journalists will from time to time readily do the bidding of clubs to help out mates or because they happen to support them and they needs media support (cue Robbo). What you say about Hird's tenuous hold on the coaching role is obvious to every man and his dog and Patrick Smith has been an almost lone voice at News Limited in this respect. However, at Fairfax where Caro sits on the throne, there are as both George and I mentioned, others who have been right on the button with this story and provided her substantial support in that respect. As to the situation at Melbourne, we all would like to hope that PJ has "righted the ship" as you claim. I wish I could be as confident of that as you are and time will tell. However, there's never been a definitive analysis of what really happened and who was responsible for steering the ship towards the rocks. I have a belief that you need to look at our malaise with a long term view; that our problems stemmed from issues that arose a long time ago and that our ranks at the top have been divided for far too long. We've been in conflict for decades. The issues came to a head with the merger, the fight against Gutnick, the Szondy era, the helplessness of the Gardner era, the wall we hit with Jimmy's illness and the divisiveness within the ranks during the McLardy era. Wilson et al never really even skimmed the top of the issues that afflicted our club and a better journalist might be able to make a good fist of it. I've discussed this with one or two journos who think it would make a good story but the time's not right yet. I agree with that not for journalistic reasons but because we are still at a very low ebb, both on an off the field and because four wins in 2014 stands starkly as evidence that whatever Jackson might have done, he has definitely not righted the ship - yet. The story should come out when we're at where Port Adelaide is today.

It's actually not so much as the age and demographic of the Melbourne supporter that's the problem but those whose mindset is so totally negative that they surrender on every tough issue at the club so that they are completely unwilling and unable to confront them.

True and very admirable of her but, as we know, it's not the first time she was caught out ... and caught out she was, which really made the admission necessary. Her problem was that she failed to get confirmation of Hird's sacking from a primary source and went with the story anyway.Caro's main source of information is said to be the AFL itself and, in this case, her informant might have believed that Hird was gone but it seems that in the final moment the sacking didn't happen, perhaps on legal advice. Caro does get things wrong from time to time. She's not infallible and, of course, she writes opinion pieces as well so whilst she might have flawed views from time to time, she rarely finds the need to apologise for those. On the supplements/drug saga she's benefitted from some excellent journalists who work also for Fairfax but she recently got things badly wrong on the FDA status of AOD9604 and I don't recall her publishing a correction or retraction. Her agenda in this saga has been directed mainly at the golden boy and that's where in my view, she's been exposed the most (much in the same way that her agenda coloured her reporting and views on tanking). At least, as long as the current hierarchy at Melbourne is in bed with the powers at the AFL, she's been reasonably soft on us. I don't know yet whether that's a blessing or not.

The greatest player ever to wear that number for the club, without a shadow of doubt

How true. Tanya is being painted as the Lady Macbeth of this scenario but in truth, the Shakespeare epic records nothing about the taking of copious notes about the things that transpired in the castle or upon the heath. Tanya doesn't have a dog called Spot either.

Time to celebrate all of the things that made him a great footballer.

I can see lots of fun on the horizon as the trade period starts in earnest next week.

There's little question that Roos' plan is staged and that we should see something considerably different next year and that will be made more possible with the changed personnel. But on that note, what I didn't understand was why, having successfully (at least to an extent) developed our new defensive game plan, we then went even more defensive instead of going the other way and playing more attacking football which I believe definitely cost us the Brisbane game and even possibly the GWS game? I think it had something to do with the fact that our personnel weren't up to it in terms of their ability to run. Sam Blease can look terrific on the burst but he doesn't run hard enough particularly when defending. For his sake, I hope that if he gets another chance elsewhere that he can develop an engine because I think he can play footy.