Whispering_Jack

My actual hard copy version of Breakfast with Bails is on its way from Amazon. If it means so much to you, I'll let you have my copy. Cheers

Saw something on Twitter about some limitations on questions. What was that about?

On the flight ready to take off from Miami to San Juan. Looking forward to a plethora of good reports when we arrive in two and a half hours. In flight kindle reading is Breakfast with Bails.

In that case, surely some AFL club has missed an opportunity to secure a lucrative sponsorship from one of these companies? ?

The title to the thread is somewhat misleading because Demetriou's company is not engaged in the game but private enterprise and of course, has yet to be found guilty of committing an offence. If you want to relate it to the time he was AFL CEO then by all means but IMO quite independently of the issues of this case, Demetriou's final years at the helm were littered with several questionable decisions which has many including myself scratching our heads in bewilderment at the way he was running the competition. Still, there are those who will argue that it doesn't matter because the AFL was making money. That's what I call an embarrassing position to have in the context in which the competition was conducted at times.

The main problem I have with the alternative strip is that we have to wear it far too often. In reality we don't have that many clashes and if it happened 4 or 5 times a year, we wouldn't be concerned. The AFL should review their rules and be reasonable about their application. We

That memorable moment was possibly #38 in someone's book but given where we've been at in our recent past, it has to be close to #1 in mine. However, as has often happened when we've had one bright moment in the gloom of the past decade, the clouds rolled over and by late in the season we were being regularly beaten up again. The second Bulldogs game comes to mind. Notwithstanding, there were more bright shiny days in 2015 than any time in the past four or five years.

This is a great initiative by the club which is really looking after its supporters. I wish I could be there but alas, I'll be flying to Puerto Rico for a Caribbean tour. I'll also be going to Trinidad and Tobago looking for some West Indian cricketers (there certainly aren't any here) and then on to French Guiana and Devil's Island (the second spiritual home of the Demons after the G). Wishing you all the compliments of the season and looking forward to reports and photos of the final training session of the year. And it's onwards and upwards in 2016.

If you're out there tasmanlvr - all the best and looking forward to your return in 2016

Anyone know what's happened to tasmanlvr?

As promised, I went to my two sources and one has given me his consent to reproduce the personal message he sent to me on the proviso that I omit the name of the person referred to in his PM because he didn't want to cop any flack even after all these years. However, he remained firm about his source being an impeccable one:- bazza226 17 Started conversation: 20 Feb 2013 · Report It is my understanding from a good source that the initial investigation got nowwhere - denials from all and sundry. Then 13 days later they got heavy with the witnesses after they received 'information' from (name withheld). A disgruntled Ex-employee. My second source remains reluctant to have her information reproduced because she feels that it would most likely give her identity away and would likely have repercussions at her work. Another of her concerns is that the release of the information might also hurt the club which she doesn't wish to do. I should add that he information matches that of bazza226 and includes the name of a second disgruntled ex-employee, the claim that these persons told the investigators that they provided the information only after discussing their stories with others who had been close to the club. She also provided other information relevant to the club (but not connected with the tanking information) which I subsequently had verified by a former board member. If and when she is agreeable, I will provide a statement from her. I don't see what purpose it would serve at this stage to raise old ghost stories about the treachery of these awful characters and (if my source is correct) the vindictive conduct of those who urged them on. I believe the information vindicates Dean Bailey and Chris Connolly and is actually consistent with how the AFL has been accused of being heavy handed both in the tanking investigation (confirmed from the passages from the book made available in the Herald Sun) and in other investigations as has been reported in the case of the Dustin Martin investigation. I have to reiterate, there has been no attempt on my part to "demean" Dean Bailey. I stand by my belief that he was not a great coach but that's an opinion based on supporting the club during his tenure and others are entitled to disagree. If there has been any demeaning on this thread it has been of a number of great servants and indeed heroes of the club like Jimmy, Garry and Chris and others who gave their all for the club and certainly don't deserve the crap heaped on them from some quarters. Now let's move on.

Good promotion from all at Demonland. Reckon we're responsible for most of the sales.

The post in question was offensive and misquoted me in a number of ways but the vile part was to suggest I made up a conspiracy when he knew very well that I had confidentiality obligations yet he covered for you on the basis of confidentially. In my book, that's disingenuous and dishonest ... and vile. If you want to continue this discussion, you can continue by PM because the subject is now closed. I will be asking my two sources if they want to confirm what they told me three years ago. If they agree, I will post.

I've taken your suggestion under consideration and concluded that since I provided evidence of the hypocrisy and double standards employed by the poster, there's no case to answer.

Rubbish. "You know that the appointment process probably had a certain level of confidentiality to it that he won't want to compromise, and ask a question that Alotta probably won't answer, knowing he won't." I've highlighted your comment to demonstrate that you are a vile and hypocritical piece of work. For those who aren't aware of the so-called "conspiracy theory" TimD is referring to, I'll repeat it because of its relevance to the thread about Dean Bailey. Soon after Caroline Wilson revealed the controversial "vault" allegations in late October, 2012, I received communications from two different and I believe unconnected sources saying that the AFL tanking investigation had been on the verge of being wound up when two former MFC employees approached the AFL's investigation team with the "vault" story. One of those sources added that the two had been encouraged to do so by at least one person who used to be close to the club. My informant did not want to be identified for personal reasons which were work related and I honoured her request. That's the so called "stitch up" and TimD knows I had agreed not to divulge her identity. In other words, the standards of confidentially TimD expects Alotta to honour only apply to his mates and yet, he abuses others for wanting to maintain the same standards. In the event, it was revealed much later that the circumstances by which the "vault" story reached the AFL investigation were pretty much as described by my correspondents as having come from disgruntled ex-employees. Whether anyone who used to be close to the club was involved has never been disclosed. For his part, Dean Bailey's version was clear. He didn't cheat. BTW, that AFL coach's definition of "unimpressive" included his view on our financial position at the time. So please TimD don't pee on my back and tell me it's raining.

Thanks a lot Alotta but my comments about Bailey and his remuneration weren't made to "demean" him. Rather, as I stated, they were by way of providing "background to his arrival at the club" which was about how we were poor and in particular, how poorly we were perceived at the time by the rest of the football world. I mentioned how our previous coach had been spruiking for the club (full credit to him for that but he was really doing someone else's job). You now confirm that the amount Bails "could command as a rookie coach was modest by industry standards in 2007" meaning I assume that he was among the lowest paid of the AFL coaches. I accept what you say about money not being a factor in the appointment but that was not the public's perception or mine. You point out that we made a modest profit in 2007 but it was well below expectations amid reports of $2.2m in combined payouts from the AFL (a substantial amount of that being a one off payment) and $500k from the MCC. I also recall we had difficulties with staff turnover being well above expected levels - it was said 20 out of 29 office staff were gone in 12 months - which also affected our bottom line. But as an insider, you would know better if what was reported at the time was in fact incorrect. The conditions at our training facility at Fitzroy Street were substandard and were said to be given by Chris Judd's management as one of the major reasons why we were eliminated from contention late in the race to gain his services (I'm a sceptic about that but the story was certainly put about and accepted by many in the media). I was also told much later that one coach with AFL premiership scalps under his belt refrained from applying for the job because we were that unimpressive a club at the time. So if you're that convinced Bails was the best coach money could buy and you have all the inside knowledge, are you able to divulge exactly who the club approached for the job and who were the actual applicants? Again for the record, by stating the background of how the club was perceived or that Bailey's remuneration was "modest", this was not meant to disparage him - in fact I was in total support of the appointment and was impressed by him when he was interviewed in the media and on the few occasions when I had the opportunity to speak with him over the years. That doesn't change my view about his ability as an AFL coach after nearly four years in the job, nor the fact that his capacity to coach the team was limited due to a number of factors beyond his control including, among other things, the club's financial position. Bailey was in fact a stroke of genius compared with some of the later appointments. Of those soon after his, Prendergast and McNamee come to mind but as we know, a lot more very costly mistakes were made on both sides of a gaping divide at the club by many to get it to the point of 186 and beyond. And as I've stated more than once, I'm happy to have gone well past that point now.

True ... but I think that's only natural given that we rigorously put every player under the microscope from the moment they're recruited (and often well before). I was looking back into our archives on Demonland and found our team lists from 2011-2012. Irrespective of whether or not we're still as young a side as we were back then, I'm confident that we're in front on quality and depth but more importantly, well ahead in terms of fitness and commitment to the club than where we were at three or four years ago. We need to be more consistent from week to week but inconsistency is what you get with youth. That's why we've invested heavily in our development team. With that and the combination of Roos and Goodwin set to take a better list into 2016, I'm looking forward to being better equipped to produce a more attacking style of game that will have us competing with the AFL's big boys in the not too distant future.

Oliver Who? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hardy

Try again OD.

Dees still young after three rebuilds: Champion Data

ANB is no slouch when it comes down to the hard stuff in the clinches - he was regarded as a real "extractor" of the footy in his Under 18 year which makes Oliver's effort very impressive.

I have no doubt that Dean was appointed "because he was considered (by a clear margin) to be the best candidate for the job" but that's not inconsistent with my proposition. We were a poor club at the time and didn't have $1½m to splash around along with the AFL's full support in looking for the best and most experienced coach available as PJ had when the club appointed Paul Roos. Nor we we considered a destination club for coaches at the time. I have no conclusive proof for the claim but I expect available resources play a role when seeking out applicants for any job at any club and many would consider it fiscally irresponsible to do otherwise. I can only think of one other candidate at the time and that was Kevin Sheedy who most likely would have come with a higher price tag. Many would have been happy with his appointment - I think he would have been a poor choice. As to your assessment of what history was to show, that's very much a matter of interpretation. I think the jury's a long way from being out and while I agree that Bailey was treated shabbily, there was no shortage of shamefulness and indignity in the way in which many people behaved during that period and Bails wasn't the only one badly done by over the journey. At least he got almost 4 years of tenure which is more than many other coaches get in the industry. I'm hoping the book throws some more light on the subject and I might come back in time with my thoughts after I read it (I have a few others to read first though). I'm just thankful that most of the ghosts of that era have now gone and that the club has moved on from those days.

Seriously though, it's a silly thought this 100 goals business. There's absolutely no guarantee that he's even going to play full forward - he has such a fantastic tank that it's hard not seeing him player further afield in some games. And while he's obviously going to be an important cog in our forward line set up, I think it's more important that he be part of a line up that strives to score 100 points a game on average and to keep opposing sides down to about 85. That would be a very good outcome for us IMO.

Ten seasons ago that I made the trip to Brisbane for a Saturday night game against the Lions at the Gabba. I was reasonably confident that Melbourne could win the game - we had been playing well and they were on the slide at the end of their golden era but, as it turned out, we got whipped. I remember a discussion I had with a fellow Demon fan as we waited outside the venue where the post match "celebrations" were to be held. Despite our being one of the potential finals teams, we seemed to be going nowhere as a club. Our brand was hardly inspirational (Demetriou pointed out a little later that we stood for nothing and I recall a "crisis meeting" at the Bentleigh Club attracted a paltry 45 people). Our financial issues were well documented - after all, we had to sell our "home" games to the Lions, and our coach doubled up as our main spruiker. Our list was starting to fray at the edges, we had no leadership succession plan in place and once Craig Cameron left, our recruiting went to the dogs. Within 2 years, Daniher was gone and the club eventually replaced him for the following season by Dean Bailey. We were a poor club and chose our new coach, partly on the basis of cost. That's some of the background to his arrival at the club. I don't believe Bailey was a good coach. A good bloke and a decent person - yes but he never approached greatness as a coach, nor was he allowed to do so partly because of the circumstances of the club during his tenure and partly because of his own limitations and, in my view, inability to develop his team through a period during which there were some significant changes in the way the game was being played. I will buy the book and am happy to do so, particularly if the proceeds go towards assisting his family and I will read it with great interest to see if it matches my thoughts about the difficulties both he and his successor experienced in attempting to coach the players during a tumultuous period for the club.

Is that 100 goals by Queens Birthday or for the whole season he's talking about? [I'm trying to keep the lid on]