Watson11

I'm sure they will. Tired, over-confident, complacent, happy with year, who knows. All I know is they haven't lost contested ball all year, were smashed at it, and unlike Hawthorn the week before WC made them pay big time.

There are so many small things that can lead to a debacle like Saturday in hindsight. I suspect Max had to fill some news and didn't know what to write.

We didn't execute our gameplan. Coaches tried to mix it up when things started going badly. Our gameplan is not to lose contested possession and not tackle. That's what happened and who knows why. Coaches tried everything, including throwing TMac back in the first quarter to stop the onslaught.

Totally true. But for the optimists plenty of sides have been humiliated in a final and recovered. Just a couple of examples. 2009 prelim. Geelong 17.18 v Pies 6.11. Pies won 2010. 2000 semi. Carlton 23.12 v Brisbane 10.9. Brisbane won next 3 flags.

Ken Hinkley f%$&'d up the Port culture the year after their great run in 2014. He decided to put a senior individual player (Kane Cornes) before the team and the club, defended the decision to the hilt, and Port have been a shadow since. The tough decision for us will be knowing when Jones is no longer best 22 and handling it in the best interests of the club. I don't think it will be a factor in 2019. Clarkson does it better than anyone and Hawthorn tend to over-achieve because of the culture he has built, unlike Port who have been consistent under-achievers for 4 years. Goody also appears to be prepared to make tough calls (ie Watts).

I'd be happy with a premiership in 2 years and 3 in 6 years but not missing finals next year!

Considering the ball only went inside our 50 about 7 times in the first 1 1/2 quarters it was irrelevant. Nearly all the scores came from turnovers. Halfway through Q2 WC had scored 50 points from turnovers out of the 57 points they had scored. And the ball spent most of that time in their forward 50.

Agree it is important and will burn a hole in their thinking but more important is what got them there. The score resulted from -15 contested possession at half time, only 17 tackles in the first half, and eagles scoring something like 56 points out of 69 points from turnovers to half time etc. For a side that prides itself on contested ball (No 1), pressure (No 1 in last 4 weeks before prelim), tackling (No 1) they will have a lot to motivate them over pre-season. But as Neale D would say about next year, it's not about what you say it's about what you do so I'm looking forward to what they do in 2019.

Agree but would add that we had a big problem at the MCG until the last 4 weeks. We fixed that by defending rebounds out of our inside 50, and beat 3 top 8 sides at the G including smashing GWS who arguably have the best outside runners in the league. Add Lever and I'll be disappointed if we don't finish H&A top or second in 2019 if Max is healthy next year.

Picket fence. Yesterday was a shocker. No defending that. Plenty of young teams have been smashed in big games and gone onto bigger things. Some have been smashed and disappeared. I’ll be there cheering us to go onto bigger and better things. That’s why they call people like us “supporters”.

PS Collingwood played an almost identical contested possession game plan last night and exposed Richmond’s weakness.

Execution of game plan today for whatever reason. WC were 17-0 this season when they lose CP by 11 or less or win it. We were about -20 first half. End of story. All the bad luck, bad turnovers etc were on the back of us having zero experience of losing cp and under so much pressure because of it. We’ll be back and better next season.

Can’t agree. Our game plan is contested possession to get the ball forward and then protect it coming back. But we were smashed in the contest in the first half.

Great post and my sentiments. Gawny is symptomatic of the team. He looked tired against Geelong and Hawthorn and looked spent today. He had no elevation compared to normal but has given it his all as have all the players. They were just spent and this is a great learning experience of how important every one of the 22 H&A games are so as to make top 4. Should drive them a lot further next year. Want Preuss so Gawny isn’t tired next September.

True but this group is built on contest and tackling. They will be gutted by what they served up today. I expect a serious tilt next year. Goody sums up moments like these perfectly. It’s a fine line. Never as good as you think it is and never as bad either.

Terrible first half and 33 tackles not good enough. But I have full confidence this group will use this to drive a ferocious season in 2019. The young guys are proud and they will be far more gutted than anyone and have a lot to prove next year after dishing up 33 tackles and losing contested possession by 15. That is not what this group stands for. The most exciting thing over the last 5 weeks was the team learnt how to defend the entire ground. Doing that with Lever back and we are a 5 goal better team. Lever is a great intercept player and his kicking can break lines. Think we really need Preuss. Max has had a huge load this year and if he carries that load he’ll be 80% this time of year every year. I wasn’t at the game today but was at the last 2 and even then I thought Max was tired. We need max peaking in September from now on, not tired. Perhaps some outside speed but that had nothing to do with today. I think today our engine room is young, looked tired, and didn’t even bring the B standard game in the first half. Losing contested possession was completely foreign and they panicked and lost composure. They’ll learn from that. Selection had nothing to do with it. Smith had 10% of our tackles!! Fritsch wouldn’t have helped the tackle count. I think this will drive us to top 2 at end of round 22 next year. The sky isn’t falling in. Would have been unbelievable to pinch a flag this year. Progress next year will be making a GF. I reckon we’ll do it

Next year would be nice to see Petracca to start backing himself to kick goals. Gives off too much when he is in a position to kick it.

You have to give credit to WC. Started by smashing us in contested ball and we lacked composure, lost structure, panicked etc. winning contested ball this qtr at least.

Richmond got found out for being weak in contested possession and clearances, things Collingwood are pretty good at. They were vulnerable against any team good at those two things.

It will be interesting to see how much time Vardy spends on the ground. It will either be Vardy or Cripps as the 6th forward at times. When Vardy is on I would like to see Frost on him and OMac on JK. Frost could do some real damage running off Vardy. But the rotations when Vardy goes off would be difficult.

I was keen on Gaff but aren’t sure whether bringing in “superstars” on giant money works. Buddy was a success commercially and individually but for Sydney an overall fail football wise. Sydney have given up some critical talent the last 5 years. I actually hope Richmond get Lynch as I think it will weaken their culture and if it does they’ll be mediocre. I’d rather back JT to draft some elite outside speed via the draft and continue to retain and develop our current list.

They have nailed it. Will be won in the midfield. Funny to read the indignant west coast supporter responses.

Interesting stat When WC lose contested possession by more than 11 they are 0-6. When they win CP or lose by less than 11 they are 17-0. We were +23 last time, average +17. WCE average +1. King is right. If we play like first half last week and lose CP we won’t win. But 2nd half last week we were our normal CP beasts and that is why we won. WC are not great at CP and I’ll back our mids with Viney to be +30. Dees by 35 points.

That wasn’t our problem against Hawthorn. First quarter we kicked 3.1 from 6 or 7 inside 50s. We were down in contested ball. Full credit to Hawthorn though. They went taggers on our mids and backed Mitchell to beat Harmes. Went ok first half but we found a way to overcome it. To win when below our best is a huge step up. Only in first half as well. We hardly ever lose contested ball and we lost it first half. WCE have not been great on contested ball. If we win +20, and it’s fine conditions, we’ll beat wce

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