Vogon Poetry

Why? We have had an operating profit over this period as I understand it which would be the envy of many others. We are paying off debt. As PJ said on SEN just recently, this club needs an extended period of stability. Unlike Macca who thinks the last three years is all that matters, it's really just the first baby steps in setting this club up. We should be working closely with the AFL to ensure this happens. Our saviour might be the Bentleigh Club. It is worth millions and properly utilized could replace much of our pokies revenue. What a brilliant move that was by Joe. You see Macca, things that happened more than 3 years ago do matter.

How do you know? I'd be interested to know how they base it. I agree with you, playing at Geelong is pretty much a death sentence.

Oh honestly Macca, if you want to limit discussion and critique to the last 3 good years then yes we've stood on our own two feet and been a club that can be respected for doing so. But to go back further is to recognize the reality and understand better some of the decisions that are made and the reasons behind them. It's not "bearing a grudge and an agenda". That's is clearly nonsense and I'm surprised you'd make such a statement.

I don't accept that receiving some help dooms us to blindly support and be beholden to the AFL either Red, but my response was to Macca who stated we have stood on our own two feet when clearly we haven't. Many on this forum continually look to inequities and excuses as to why we can't achieve things. There wasn't a lot in the draw this year that hinders us so now we are turning to things such as "4 Friday night games for Carlton", "another away game at Geelong" and "another away game to Essendon". They use these "garnish" issues to find excuses for us, why we can't succeed and they lay the blame at the feet of the AFL so any failure we have can be sheeted home to someone else. Frankly I don't buy it. If you don't take responsibility for your own performance and work in the environment you have you just set up reasons to fail. Of course the AFL are responsible for inequities in the draw. Of course they can be critiqued. Of course they make mistakes. But the reality for me is they have also kept us alive and been generous of spirit towards us when we have been on our knees and behaved atrociously. I've said before I rarely if ever comment when I agree with the general mood as what is one more "voice of agreement" going to achieve. But I will comment when I disagree with the general view here and I think the AFL get a bad rap for their treatment of us and there is another side to the AFL story that is rarely if ever represented here.

We may be talking at cross-purposes. You said we had stood on our own two feet. We haven't. Even with your chosen limited time frame we've received handouts. Many haven't. Over a longer period we've received more than most. Hardly standing on our own two feet. And the work PJ has done "is to be expected"?! Wow. If exceptional is to be expected I'd hate to be your employee. He's been unbelievably good. The crowning glory will be to instigate a succession plan that cements his great work.

Macca as my post above suggests whenever we've tried to stand on our "own two feet" as you've suggested we've tripped over badly. We've received handouts twice that I can recall and I've outlined them. Thank heavens they have. We were inept but aren't now because they basically took over control of our club. Those that complain don't understand the concept of biting the hand that feeds you.

I wasn't sure whether you were tongue in cheek when you said this but subsequent replies suggest not. My first recollection of being saved by the AFL was in 2003 when we as members had our last chance to vote in some Board members of our choosing - Coglin and Phillip. When they joined the Board they took on responsibility of unpaid liabilities of millions of dollars (including a tax liability quietly hidden in the bottom draw of a desk) the inept Szondy Board lost. The AFL bailed us out and gave us over a million bucks from memory and this at a time when it could have suited them to shunt us off to where ever and get rid of our basket case of a club. Thankfully Demetriou had an expansionist vision and wanted us to both remain in the competition and to stay in Melbourne. Then of course there was the tanking fiasco overseen by an inept Stynes/McLardy Board not voted in by the members but allowed to replace the Gardner Board when they realised and election was unwinnable and it was best for the Club to let Jimmy take over. The tanking fiasco (yes, I know, we didn't tank it was just all a joke) and the inept management that landed us with Neeld, Connolly, McLardy and Schwab as the four pillars on which footy clubs are built left us with an interim coach and a percentage of 52% or thereabouts. The AFL stepped in and provided us with a brilliant CEO and competent Board and the financial support to pay out Schwab (who only months earlier had been granted a contract extension by McLardy), Neeld, Connolly and perhaps a few others. If you think the AFL weren't in control of all that and that Jackson at least initially wasn't totally in control reporting straight to the AFL then you live in a different land to me. The only way Jackson would have taken the job was if he had both total control and the full backing of the AFL. Our part in selecting him would have run something like "if you want AFL support and money appoint this man". And how much more support do you expect from the AFL? Whilst the most embarrassing club in the AFL we held the Queens Birthday fixture and were granted Anzac Eve. How must the Dogs, Saints and Roos felt about that? Annual blockbusters which we have are gold as they don't relate to performance. Many sweat the small stuff but the AFL have brought us back to life with their help and now many here are bemoaning their lack of support. I'm not sure if other clubs are the same but my one true hatred about this club is the inherant victim mentality its supporters have. Thankfully the Club itself doesn't have it. Thank heavens Jackson has a "can do" attitude and understands this game and is positioning us to succeed within it. Yes Red, sadly for some Footy is a business but I reckon there is a very good chance that if it wasn't we'd have joined Fitzroy in the graveyard and then we'd really have something to moan about.

Do you really understand this or are you just making it up?

There you are Wise, you and Saturday, peas in a pod.

Gosh you've read 267 pages of this. You don't have a life do you!

You must be counting practice matches!

Saw the same comment when we got Michie. Hope your mate is a good judge and I welcome Harley to the club but I'll wait and see how he goes on game day before I get too excited.

Gosh jnr, you needed to go to the B&F to see what the coaching staff thought of Watts? I got a pretty good idea when they put him up for trade with two years to run on his contract.

Wrong take I reckon TGR. Whilst the majority here think we are soft and can't negotiate I reckon we've had the balls to see what we need and go and get it. We've not been worried about the marginal costs of playing top dollar for what we need. We've not been worried that the journo's and keyboard warriors will ridicule us for paying "overs" or taking "unders". The safe thing would have been to say Lever was overs and Watts was unders and not do the deal. If we did that we'd be playing with a list we saw as inadequate. The courageous thing to do was to pay what it took and risk being wrong. Many a sook here would lament finishing 4th in a few years wishing we had a Lever to solidify the backline. This FD have a vision and are following it fearlessly. They aren't taking the easy option. Good on them. As for Watts I regret what we've done to a rare person in footy because Jack is a decent, honest and loyal person dealt cards that cruelled him. Good luck Jack, I'll always wish you the best and always feel we've let you down very badly.

Most know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

In one of the older versions of the Demonland software there was a feature that allowed you to see how many times a contributor posted on a particular thread by just clicking on the number of posts in the thread title. It would be particularly fascinating on this thread! Nash?

They aren’t getting a player from Geelong of value. 19 might get them that player.

They’ve probably been given 19 on the basis it’s on traded for Ablett. This will be to help GCS.

He won't be if he plays at Casey, he'll be a shining example....

If he stays who says we have to play him? If he doesn't perform dump him at Casey until he does what is asked. I'd rather do that an hope the penny drops after all this time than have some pizzy little third rounder.

On the MFC site he said in an interview when asked of Balic he said that there are other priorities for both clubs. I took this to mean we were looking at other trades and that Balic would be steak knives at the end of the trade period when the dust had settled.

McQueen I'm not debating with you Watts performance or history as a player. I was questioning your attribution of motive to the support Jack received by those in attendance at the B&F and offered you some alternative reasons for why he may have received support on the night. He may also have received support because like me, many would think that the club has managed this process exceptionally poorly. For those that ask how it could have been done differently cast your minds back to when Brock left, it was a very similar situation. And I've no intention of including myself in the general debate on Watts. What on earth could be said that hasn't been stated by many over 150 pages of posts? I will say though that when history is written the Jack Watt's chapter is not one our club should have any sense of pride over. Rarely has a player been treated so poorly by so many.

I was responding to his comment of yours " More telling was the chorus of supporters cheers for Jack. Blinded by his 'great guy' status over his years of mediocrity." I was suggesting that rather than the supporters being blinded by his "great guy" status they were recognizing other areas of contribution which I've detailed. I'm not debating Watt's trade situation but on your inability to see why supporters might have reacted the way they did and how little insight to that you've got and how inappropriate your criticism of them is.

Where on earth have I refused to acknowledge that Watts has only brought one good season? Read Nashers post above and see if the fog clears for you or do you really just not get it?

Maybe those supporters were thanking Jack for being loyal to the footy club over nine years where he was subject to arguably the most inept administration and leadership in the modern era and a football department that was often divided, under-resourced and incompetent. And maybe they recognize that perhaps we are the prime reason Jack didn't fully realise his talents with us. Maybe they were saying thanks for sticking by us when we wanted you to stay despite having offers at much better clubs at greater remuneration. Maybe they recognize that he didn't make the best of his talent when he was with us but was still clearly best 22 and gave us some great moments and very good games. Perhaps they are not so childish to vent their disappointment that he failed to live up to the messiah status that was sold to ignorant supporters by a CEO who was desperate to find someone to take the focus off his and the club's failures. Maybe Jack is a great guy. Maybe they recognized that he's run his time at this club and were both thanking him for what we've forced him to endure over nine years and wishing him the best for the future. I don't know if you're one of the ones potting Tex for his comments about Jake Lever leaving but those supporters who are potting Jack at every opportunity to justify the clubs decision to move him on and to vent their own anger at Jack for letting them down make Tex look like a diplomat. I find your comments ignorant, intolerant, and without any understanding of the complex issues that are clearly being played out very publicly. We are viewing something that is quite sad and reflects poorly on our Club. And yet you are dancing on Jack's grave and criticising supporters who aren't. Go figure.