stevethemanjordan

The problem is absolutely simple. We are playing two under-developed, under-performing and inexperienced key defenders in Frost and Oscar for two reasons: 1 - Injuries this year. Our best and most experienced key defender has been playing forward for the obvious reasons and another senior defender in Colin Garland was hit by a season-ending knee injury in pre-season which hasn't helped in regards to players needing to perform at their best to retain their position. In this case, our key defenders. 2 - The footy department took an enormous gamble over the off-season in my eyes, in both not providing a like-for-like replacement for Lynden Dunn and not providing enough cover for injuries. I called for us to bring in a mature-aged key defender to provide stability, depth and room for both Oscar and Frost to develop at VFL level. Whilst I complain about Oscar's form, I can see quite obviously that it's the football department to blame for the predicament that we're in. And it frustrates me to no end. I've said it numerous times but it's completely circumstantial that Oscar and Frost are playing AFL football weekly at the moment. No other team with key defender depth and quality would be playing them as regularly as we are. It was a mistake that falls at the feet of the FD and clearly they know it given we're chasing Lever hard. A player who is the same age and games experience as Oscar. Oscar and Frost might well become AFL standard key defenders although I have my doubts. They're missing way too many key ingredients presently and it's my view that with every game we go in to carrying both of them, the risk of us conceding easy goals is increased.

Agree whole-heartedly but your observations will be falling upon deaf ears. The 'improvement levels' of Frost and Oscar are both hugely exaggerated on this forum. I saw a first gamer today play for Adelaide who showed greater attribute diversity in his first game than Oscar has in his latest. Speed, intensity, decision making, spoiling ability. Oscar and Frost are both just really average and limited players presently. And that's really all I care about. Clearly we need better quality and experienced key posts if we're to take another step.

Oh yeh now I see. Oscar is also in there to the side somewhere. Doing something. Something like, good.. I don't know what, but it's good. Edit * (Jokes everyone, relax).

Lol. In no way, shape or form did he even remotely suggest he'd be going anywhere next year and his body language similarly gave absolutely nothing away. What on earth were you watching?

^ Oath. I think the majority of demonlanders don't really get how good this bloke is. He is by far the best young key defender in the game. And he will no doubt reach Rance's level providing he stays injury free. Please don't provide Oscar/Lever stats, I'll only laugh at them.

Lol. Take them red and blue glasses off m8.

Do you consider within 10 metres a long way back do you? I guess these are just many of the things we see so differently. The spoil you refer to made by Oscar in that situation is an elementary 'hand on the ball' at this level Binman. He had all the time in the world to intercept and he did. Although he hardly got a fist on it. He made a bare minimum spoil with the help of Jetta who would have to be 20 cm shorter than Dixon and was standing next to him. If anything, Jetta's effort from his standpoint in that situation was the more impressive. I mean, in an ideal situation you'd want the tall key defender (Oscar in this case), who has the space and time to really get a solid fist on it. That would be considered top-line defending. He got a hand in there though, which was what was required. Applying enormous defensive pressure through the midfield is conducive to an optimal zone defence system. And on Saturday, our defensive pressure through the midfield was peaking and was the number one reason why our zone worked so well and we were able to keep players like Dixon under control. Our enormous midfield pressure affected their ball-use which therefore meant their entries inside 50 weren't quality and were easy to defend under our system yet Oscar still managed to make the elementary look very difficult at times.

His weapon, (like Jetta) is that he's super strong in contests and rarely gets beaten. Which is why he is an AA key defender. What a silly question.

Look boys and girls, I understand that my views surrounding Oscar aren't overly popular on this forum. The fact that I made a comment rebutting a poster (Jaded), who suggested "Oscar is ridiculously improved" after his game against Port has caused a ruckus it seems. The individual highlight I gave was a clear example of what is still glaringly apparent. Nobody can actually argue that, because the evidence is [censored] everywhere. I can give you plenty of other examples from throughout the day. The term 'significant improvement' gets thrown around so often and with such nonchalance, people become numb when hearing it. For the second-half of the season, Oscar has committed less unacceptable errors at this level and has therefore been more solid in games. Making spoils, marking, hitting kicks and handballs, making correct decisions, showing awareness and football smarts at a level that in my view is acceptable at AFL and is expected. Nothing more. For some, it seems he has 'improved out of sight'. But I argue that he is simply making less errors now than he was earlier in the season. However, they're still there. Oscar actually doesn't provide anything other than a big body to stand a key forward at present. He doesn't possess any weapons or obvious strengths as I've argued for so long. He is simply a young tall key position player who is still trying to find his feet at this level. For anyone telling me otherwise, please share the moments in Saturday's game that were obvious points of difference moments. Passages or acts that were anything more than expected at this level. I can most certainly mount a case arguing that he committed far more errors than acts that were better than what I'd term acceptable. Example: Making an elementary spoil when needed or hitting a target without pressure. Cheers.

It's not just contests. It's many areas for his game, which is the main worry. I'll do a report of the first half and get back to you. I'll count the good vs bad in all facets.

I love it when posters highlight one great kick out of countless terrible ones as if to prove that the player doesn't have an issue with their kicking.

Good luck trying to convince people otherwise. An ability to kill a contest in the air is something all defenders should have as their number one attribute. Oscar's first attempt at a spoil on Dixon within the first couple of minutes of the game was literally unbelievable. King was so confused with what he was doing. We've simply got to land Lever.

There's a propensity for supporters to think that there's more scope for improvement for athlete type-footballers like Frost. Which is something I don't necessarily buy into once they're in an AFL system. I value football-specific skills above all else at AFL level and I firmly believe that players like Frost who come into the system with questionable football-specific skills will only ever be able to improve them marginally. The areas of improvement I've seen with him this year are in the strengths he already has as a player, most of which being physical attributes rather than football-specific ones. His ability to to break lines and his confidence in doing so, his speed, strength etc. His marking and understanding of when to go for a mark has improved and that's about the only footy-specific skill that I've seen genuine improvement in. That being said, he still drops marks that shouldn't be dropped at this level. What I haven't seen an improvement in, is in his ability to completely iron-out patterns of play or acts that are unacceptable and shouldn't be seen at this level. And it's those things that prove to me that he'll never be a complete player nor will he improve those areas of his game enough. The only thing he can do to avoid committing those kinds of game-changing errors is to play strictly within his limits of ability. The evidence is everywhere. The double fumble we saw against Adelaide. His failed attempt at breaking past two opponents when he had two team-mates free 5-10 metres ahead wanting a handball. That decision making process or lack of awareness was unbelievable at that moment. These are only two examples but I don't think people realise, that kind of [censored] rarely happened even in A-grade Amo's when I played. I don't see other players committing the same kinds of acts that he does. As I've said, if we had a really strong key position backman plus Tom McDonald and one of Frost or O-Mac, then things would be different and he would be able to play a much more refined role. That's what I continue to hope for when I look to next year.

Richmond have players of similar nature. So x a billion for them also. Maybe more.

If Frost consistently played within his obvious limitations, he would be good. He doesn't, so his contribution is questionable in my eyes. A catostrophic error resulting in an opposition goal is nearly always around the corner. And in a final, moments like that are amplified x 1 million.

If we make finals and Tom McDonald is still playing forward, I'll drop dead. Once Watts is back, I believe Tom will slot straight back where he belongs at CHB. And I hope it's this week.

Adelaide's first goal of the second-half was also the direct result of a Frost turnover. He had two players to handball to but because he doesn't possess a natural footballer's brain, he decides to take on an opponent when it was completely unnecessary. He is an athlete playing footy. Draft me a pudgy footballer over a sleek athlete playing football. i.e. McGovern > Frost

We have possibly the worst key defence stocks in the AFL. It's our most pressing need.

Yeh, because Vince is involved.

If Vince didn't keep committing 'school-boy' tough acts, none of you would be whinging about the MRP. Vince is the one and only person held accountable in this. Everything else is pointless to talk about.

Bernie is the furthest thing from tough imo. Anyone who consistently commits the pointless and spine-less acts that he does with throwing an arm or elbow out is a team-killer. Especially given the talent he has and what he can offer the team at his best. Dunstall was alluding to the young Hawks of that time. Vince is supposed to be a leader and is a veteran. Would love for someone to count the amount of times he's been charged/booked for similar acts since his time with us. Would have to be up there with the most of any player over the last three years.

Lol

It's two weeks because of his existing bad record. Why is anyone surprised? He's an idiot who has let his team mates and club down yet again. How many more times? Who gives a fark about what other players are getting. None of them have the record that Vince has.

Maybe watch the vision of the two? If that doesn't help then it may be an eye thing. There was obvious contact in the Vince hit. The Schofield one was far less obvious.

Haha. Honestly, the way supporters defend their own kind is out of this world. Vince deserves weeks for both acts. The contact he made with Bett's jaw was far more obvious than the Schofield/Oliver one. Vince is also a repeat offender of this kind of act. The accidental excuse goes straight out the window, regardless of force. The bump was just a typically soft act also. Douglas went lower and harder and his eyes were on the ball the entire time whereas Vince wasn't looking at the ball and elected to bump, front on at that. It was pathetically soft. He continues to let his team-mates and the club down because of this rubbish. In the first quarter, he caught Cameron high after sticking one arm out in a putrid attempt to tackle. He commits those at least once a game, sometimes more. When a player let's this kind of behaviour slip into their game, it's usually a sign that they've lost confidence in their ability to beat an opposition player fairly in a one-on-one. Vince needs to shape up or ship out.