Axis of Bob

What was that, old?

I'd look at it, but say no.

A lot also depends on how confident we are on Rivers' injury situation. Reilly is a good player, and a player that I think would be useful to us. Pick 10 is also a good pick. Meesen being thrown in is neither here nor there.

The price is good, but Rivers is too important to our defence. Although the game is changing somewhat and Rivers could possibly become decreasingly effective.

It's certainly an interesting idea, but I think Rivers is too important to our structure.

So could Simon Godfrey.

PSD, big guy.

I lvoe it how you complain about not doing anything to try to fix our rucks, yet say that we shouldn't have traded a high 2nd round pick for Johnson.

Jolly is an ordinary footballer. Wanted to leave, so we traded him while we still had him under contract. We traded him for a first round pick, which was used for Lynden Dunn, not Bell.

I also like it how you say that he is part of the best ruck duo in the league, yet then name 4 others who are better!!!

Simmonds also wanted to leave for more opportunities. There is a myth that he was traded for just Craig Ellis. He was traded for Ellis and pick 26 in a three way deal with Freo and the Dogs (Daniel Bandy being the other player involved). We didn't use this pick well, which is why people ignore it. But the deal in isolation was not that bad.

Jolly and Simmonds were victims of Jeff White's ability and ethic. He was such a good ruckman, and he was able to run out a whole game which was incredible. He was also very durable, which meant that the opportunities for the second ruckman were always limited. They both asked to be traded to get more game time.

We have not been hurt in the past in the ruck because White is such a warrior. But with White's career coming to an end soon, we need to develop ruckmen to come through the ranks.

Of that list, only Glass and McIntosh were top picks. And by top pick I mean top 10 rather than top 5.

I am of the same opinion that midfielders are the safest bet with a top 5 pick, as they are basically capable of playing straight away so you don't need to guess whether they will improve to AFL level. The other one is power forwards, as the risk you take is far outweighed by the reward that you get if they end up being good players.

I would be looking at a midfielder (which we need) with pick 4, but would draft a power forward if he was the best player available.

From what I read of it it seemed like Harris was intimating that Judd's interest in the MFC was a bit of a sham to start with. He didn't actually say that Judd has not chosen us, or that he has chosen someone else, but instead that "he will be playing elsewhere next year".

More specifically, the part where he says "it had got itself from being a rank 'no hope' outsider to being very competitive". This seems very much like they do not believe that his intentions were 100% noble when he met us and that it was all for show.

Why would we mention that we were originally a 'no hope' outsider? If they truly believed in the process then they would not have referred to anything before that process strarted, but simply would have said something like "we presented a powerful case and were strong contenders for his services".

Seems like we think there is something dodgy happening.

Should we be targeting a player who is no improvement on our current CHB? Remember Jared Rivers?

I'd also like to pass on my condolences to Becky.

And I suppose I should also congratulate Finks. :D

calabreseboy: How will West Coast fit all those players under their salary cap?

Like Nick Stevens?

You are not playing specifically for a home final, or for a double chance. Instead you play the regular season so that you can get high enough to get the easiest finals run.

I still like old55's comment. You must certianly find that the difference between 8th and 9th is too big.

As long as you realise that you are wrong, deanox.

I'd give him the Khyber.

If he truly loved the team, then he would handball to a straight running kicker towards goal, or he would pass to a team mate in a better position, or, importantly, he would chase his man down the other end of the ground and apply defensive pressure.

Robbo is selfish, and no amount of media passion and winning smiles can change what we see on the field.

deanox:

Don't confuse the responses for healthy debate, because they are simply the written forms of the bewilderment that everyone is experiencing when seeing your point of view.

Simply mind boggling.

The people are right to mock you.

One of Ferg's biggest problems is that he's a ball watcher. That means that he very naturally zones off players because he reads the ball very well. However it also means that his direct opponent can cut him up, especially one on one. And this has nothing to do with body strength either. The fact is that the opponents that beat him consistently are not the big strong forwards, but instead are the leading forwards.

That's a problem.

Bartram isn't a great user of the footy, so why would you want him in a quarterback role? Pretty much the only thing a quarterback type player has to do is use the footy well. Bartram has a huge tank, so use him in a spot where his running is useful.

Franky, if we're not in the 'window' then surely we are less likely to keep depth players.

Remember that there are more opportunities to cull after trade week. This is just the first batch that have no currency.

goodoil:

Do you think that Maric will go that early? Being a 6 foot key forward would turn me off him, especially if his midfield skills are limited.

I'll quote myself, Tiger of Old:

Everyone just plays follow the leader and says what the last person said. And everyone then thinks that they are right because that's what everyone else said too.

How do you know Kreuzer is the best player? What are his strengths and weaknesses, and what makes him better than, say, Cotchin? Have you watched him many times and, importantly, have you watched everyone else many times? I doubt it. And I wouldn't rate your opinion anyway.

You said that he will be number 1, end of story. If that's the case then putting a year's salary to the club if he isn't is a moot point because the risk is zero. old55 isn't making any such claim, because Kreuzer will probably be number 1. But it's not 100% as you claim. If it was then you could make the bet knowing that there is a zero percent chance that you will lose money. What if Carlton traded pick 1 to Brisbane for Simon Black? Not certain then, is it?

Demons 32:

Ever think a few people on here mayb be 17, 18, 19 years old and have played against, know, seen at junior level in there life time. Alot of people are their bloody age and are in their age group at footy!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure that a few of them have seen them. But have they ever been involved with senior football? That's what we're recruiting for. And a 17 year old has only seen one year of under 18s footy, and doesn't know whether the players they saw will be decent AFL footballers.

Jarka:

I know one of them posts here, but he hasn't posted in this thread, has he? Pretty much everyone (I may have missed some) that has posted such an opinion on this thread is someone who, through being part of Demonland for a while, I have seen is not a regular draft watcher. They are casual punters like you and me.

I say this as a warning to everyone who is following their first draft on internet supporter sites. It happens every year and I don't want them to be sucked in by people on this thread who talk like they know what's happening, but clearly don't. I know who the good ones are, as you probably do, through following many drafts while being a member here. And they haven't popped up in this thread yet.

And how many of those posters you mentioned write on this thread, or at Demonland?

All the people who have come on here, so far, and are saying comments like "no team would pass on him (Kreuzer)", mean nothing because they are simply going on regurgitated information from the likes of mojo, Weaver and footyman. The game watchers may have reasons for rating them the way they do, but the others are just hoping they are right. Look at their respective phantom drafts and watch how they change over the course of the season. Then look at a phantom draft being done now and rate it compared with their next phantom draft a week away from the actual draft. Then compare them to the actual draft.

It annoys me when people say 'player X will go first', because they have no basis for making that claim. Everyone just plays follow the leader and says what the last person said. And everyone then thinks that they are right because that's what everyone else said too.

There are judges whose opinion on kids I rate highly. None of them go from second hand information, but instead they actually watch them. None of them have offered player thoughts in this thread.

Jarka, I'm not here to say that he's not going to go pick 1. I'm saying there's a chance that he won't. Remember that it's still a few months until the actual draft and a lot can change. I have only seen a little bit of Kruezer and, while he does many things very well, he's not the complete package everyone says he is. He's a very good player but remember that Josh Fraser was a "once in a generation player".

The point is that nobody here knows much about the players and is just going on second hand information. I can read profiles and look for things that I like, but unless I watch them I don't know if they're any good.

So when people come on here and actually claim to know about each player it annoys me because I know that they're full of crap.

Tiger of old:

Chris Judd dislocated both of his shoulders before he was drafted. He had both of them reconstructed.

From people I've spoken to they say that the shoulder feels just as strong, if not stronger after a reconstruction. This difference is that because you have a screw in there, if the shoulder goes again that screw then rips out some of the bone that it was screwed into.

I'm not a recruiter, and I suspect that there aren't many on this site. But I've been around these sites long enough to know that the pre-draft hype from the media and supporters does not necessarily reflect the thoughts of the club recruiters themselves. Especially this far out from the draft.

Just because the papers have been talking about Kreuzer (as they have since about round 5) doesn't mean that that is what's going to happen.

I'm not saying he isn't going to be pick 1, but there's a chance that he won't be. The way Ratten spoke sounded a little like a forewarning to Carlton supporters by trying build up Cotchin and ignoring Kreuzer.

And who here knows anything about the kids except for what they've seen other people write?

You get one person say something and, because nobody else has seen these kids play much, everyone else just agrees and regurgitates what these people have said. Then everyone gets a favourite from what they've heard. Then everyone moans after the draft that their favourite wasn't picked even though he was available, while also moaning that the one we did pick wasn't touted as highly by the 'experts' and "would have been available much later". Then they forget about it by round 5 the next year.

It happens every year. Watch it happen.

Well it could be the other way around. Do Carlton take Cotchin or Kreuzer at 1, knowing that they have pick 3.

Although I don't trust these things, Ratten was asked about him going to see Kreuzer the day before and Ratten said that they went to see Cotchin. This is strange because if they didn't lose and get pick 1 (who everyone thought was Kreuzer) then they would have had pick 3 only, which was probably going to have them miss both Kreuzer and Cotchin. So why were they going to see him with the coach (who usually goes to cast a final eye)?

I have a funny feeling Kreuzer may not necessarily go first.