Gator

I'll ask you again, what in your "opinion" is Lever worth ?

I don't care about his length of contract. He's on the list and will be given every opportunity. When I say boom, I mean A grade. If he makes A grade it will take 4 years at least. BUT that's not to say he won't become a regular in the 22 by season's end. Up to him. Do you normally make things more complicated than they need be ?

He just needs to show he's worthy of a spot on the list in 2018. He has time like all 20 year olds. If he booms it will be at the age of 25.

He's certainly a classy/smooth mover. He reminds a little of Josh Kelly and Stephen Hill in his lateral movement, albeit without the speed, although as mentioned in numerous bios, he's athletic. I have a feeling there'll be little middle ground on this one. Boom or bust.

What's Lever worth ?

So what's Lever worth ? If Adelaide had chosen Lever with pick 1 in the 2014 draft they would have been lauded for getting it right. At 21 and 195cm he's no.1 in the league for intercept possessions with Alex Rance second and he's number 2 in the league for intercept marks just behind McGovern (3.8 to 3.6). Every draft pick is somewhat speculative, even pick 1, so you don't trade a proven young gun with over 50 games for a speculative draft pick. And bear in mind there are first rounders and there are first rounders. Pick 1 is a first rounder and so is pick 18. We didn't give up a single digit pick this year and hopefully next year's first rounder is in the teens. In reality, the Lever trade is defined by two separate issues, i.e. was the price fair and secondly, did we negotiate as well as we could ? The second question doesn't overly interest me a) because we landed the best young talent in recent trade history and b) I'm not privy to all of the facts, so I'll let others have a coronary over that one. As far as the first question goes I have zero doubt we didn't pay "overs" for the reasons mentioned above and below. Conclusion, he's worth at least pick 1 in this draft and I'd argue he's worth more than pick 1, because he's no longer speculative. Would anyone here trade Petracca for pick 1 ? How about pick 1 for picks 10 and 13 ? So if he's worth more than pick 1 I can't quite understand why some are so concerned by pick 10 and a pick next year (hopefully) in the teens, especially when 35 is coming back. PS: I know we supposedly got him for about pick 5 under the points system, but I don't reckon that's a great way of measuring the worth of players and it's mainly used for F/S and academy players.

Best quote I've heard this trade period: "Win games, not deals".

I've found some more pre-draft info, including a summary from Quigley on BF, who;s one of the best in the business. Pick 12 (Adelaide) – Harley Balic Position: Midfielder/half-Back Size: 187cm/80kg Player Comparison: Scott Pendlebury In the Mix: Francis, H McKay Having lost Dangerfield in the trade period, Adelaide will be looking for a taller midfielder with a bit of class. Balic fits this criteria perfectly as a midfielder who can play forward or back. Balic excels in traffic thanks to his basketball and that, along with his height, has seen him compared to Pendlebury. When forward Balic leads to the right places and has a terrific overhead mark. The Crows will be hoping that Francis gets through to this pick, while Mathieson is another option. Quigley 13. Harley BalicHt – 187 Wt - 82Balic seems to be slipping down a few mocks in the media and I am not really sure why. If he goes where a few of those pundits have him going he could easily end up the steal of the draft. Up until this year Balic has been splitting time between basketball and AFL and as a result there are still some rough edges to be polished. I can see there being a fair bit of difference in the ratings for Balic between teams and it is not out of the question that a team could love him and take him much higher than most expect. He has a very high ceiling and if he developed to his best he could be an elite midfielder at the next level.Balic is at his best when he is the focus of a unit whether it is in the midfield, up forward or down back. When he is, he tends to rise to the occasion and good things happen around him. He is very good one on one and can impose himself on a game like few in this draft. He has improved quite a lot over the course of the year but there are still areas he needs to work on.One of the areas he has been working on, and one that still needs some work, is his kicking. There is quite a lot of difference between Balic’s best and worst and at the moment there is still a bit too much of the worst in his game. There is not a lot wrong with his kicking style and I expect that with some intense work he will flatten out the flight on his kicks and be more consistent about getting it where it needs to go. Up forward his set shot technique is entirely too variable. He needs to get a routine and stick to it and work on improving his balance in his approach a bit more. With all that said though there is quite a bit of class in what he does even by foot. He has brought a heads-up approach from basketball and he has excellent peripheral vision. He tends to play to the short options but he usually takes good ones and is very good delivering into the 50.Balic has played a lot more as an inside mid this year and he has shown pretty decent potential in that role. His kicking out of the clearances was a bit ordinary but by hand he is really good. His vision in the contest is excellent and is creative by hand getting it to good attacking options. As mentioned above he is very good one on one and he has good strength over the ball. He works through traffic well and is one of those guys who never looks rushed even when there are opponents all around him.Athletically Balic seems pretty good in everything but pace. He ran a 15.3 beep last year and he plays with excellent agility. He can also fly when he has to and tends to play tall. Speed wise he looks like he is cruising around at ¾ pace for most of the game. He is smooth around the park and, for those of you old enough to remember, moves a lot like Michael Long. He is quite solid but has a loose limbed, very agile style.Balic made a name for himself last year as a half forward and he is a very good mark. He can get up and he watches the ball into his hands very nicely. He also has very good body control in the air and he can keep the defender where he can’t get to the ball. He is not a good converter though and if he is going to play as a half forward at the start of his career he is going to need to improve his finishing.On the outside Balic looks calm and composed and can often create opportunities for his team. He has improved his spread this year a lot and upped his disposal count to 23 disposals a game in the TAC and went at 22 a game at the Champs. At times at the Champs he was in a mile of space with no-one in cooee indicating that he is working out how to use his running ability more effectively. Balic is a talent and I think could be an excellent player in a few years.

I would have preferred pick 21 to pick 31, who wouldn't, but as the table below shows, if you draft well once you get into the 20s and 30s there's historically not much difference in the outcomes. Pick 31 has a marginally better record from a games played perspective than 21. It's the top 5 where you usually get the cream, although our drafting hasn't helped the table below. Club Drafts Trades National Draft pick 1 33 drafts 151 avg games National Draft pick 2 33 drafts 131 avg games National Draft pick 3 33 drafts 128 avg games National Draft pick 4 33 drafts 96 avg games National Draft pick 5 33 drafts 111 avg games National Draft pick 6 33 drafts 53 avg games National Draft pick 7 33 drafts 105 avg games National Draft pick 8 33 drafts 98 avg games National Draft pick 9 33 drafts 92 avg games National Draft pick 10 33 drafts 87 avg games National Draft pick 11 33 drafts 88 avg games National Draft pick 12 33 drafts 82 avg games National Draft pick 13 33 drafts 106 avg games National Draft pick 14 33 drafts 83 avg games National Draft pick 15 33 drafts 73 avg games National Draft pick 16 33 drafts 89 avg games National Draft pick 17 33 drafts 68 avg games National Draft pick 18 33 drafts 76 avg games National Draft pick 19 33 drafts 88 avg games National Draft pick 20 33 drafts 70 avg games National Draft pick 21 33 drafts 59 avg games National Draft pick 22 33 drafts 43 avg games National Draft pick 23 33 drafts 54 avg games National Draft pick 24 33 drafts 73 avg games National Draft pick 25 31 drafts 56 avg games National Draft pick 26 31 drafts 63 avg games National Draft pick 27 31 drafts 61 avg games National Draft pick 28 31 drafts 46 avg games National Draft pick 29 31 drafts 79 avg games National Draft pick 30 31 drafts 57 avg games National Draft pick 31 31 drafts 60 avg games National Draft pick 32 31 drafts 63 avg games National Draft pick 33 31 drafts 62 avg games National Draft pick 34 31 drafts 57 avg games National Draft pick 35 31 drafts 28 avg games National Draft pick 36 31 drafts 50 avg games National Draft pick 37 31 drafts 80 avg games National Draft pick 38 31 drafts 45 avg games National Draft pick 39 31 drafts 55 avg games National Draft pick 40 30 drafts 85 avg games

It's a good point you make. Numerous clubs wanted Lever, but he was obviously impressed by his meetings with the MFC.

I couldn't give a rat's toss bag who gets or doesn't get the credit. Simpletons worry about the applause. I'm interested in the result.

We've just picked up arguably the best player from the 2014 draft, certainly top 3 with Petracca and Heeney. When is the last time a club got such a quality 21 year old out of another club ? The Lever deal by itself makes this trade period a huge success and without question the best deal we've done in 20 years (Jeff White) and I suspect will be our best trade ever.

The back 6-7 shapes as being pivotal in 2018. How will we structure up ? I had a conversation with my lunatic Brother the other day and he agrees with Terry Wallace and would NOT play Oscar, Frost and Lever. I said Frost is quick and reasonably agile, so can play small pretty well, but he was having none of it. Despite Frost recently signing a new 2 year deal he doesn't have him in. Wallace said he'd have Hibberd play the third tall, which would allow us to have 4-5 runners. Wallace noted we played our best footy with this structure in 2017 and I agree with that observation. Most sides listed in this thread, including mine, have the 3 talls picked (OMac, Frost, Lever), but will we go for a more mobile back 6-7 notwithstanding Frost's pace ? Like anything, it will involve gameday matchups, but I do see merit in only having two talls and using Hibberd as the third. How many forward-lines running around require 3 194cm plus defenders ? Wallace rightly pointed out that we chopped and changed and were never really settled in the backline, which is another valid point. We need to settle on a structure over summer and it will be interesting to see which way they go.

Get rid of Wagner. I know you sponsor him, but that's irrelevant. There has to have a modicum of merit. At a minimum: Out Reprobate; Wagner In Oliver; Jetta Lever needs to at least spend a year earning his position.

When I saw who'd quoted me I wondered what 'special' post I was in for. Whether I'm a member or not is none of your business, but in this instance I'll indulge. Yes, I am a member. Thanks for the history lesson on Deledio, who won 3 B&Fs and had a far greater career at Richmond and was just as revered by supporters and the club alike.

No no no. @martin is certain there's more. "Yawn".

Previously posted in wrong thread... The club judges the whole trade period as opposed to every deal in isolation. I think the Lever trade was fair, although I acknowledge we could have probably done a little better due to our leverage. Who knows, perhaps it was done in good faith for Lever as much as anything. What value do you put on a club getting a good reputation with other clubs and player managers in trade deals ? And don't cite Watts, as Connors has no issue with the Dees. Pelchen said this morning we've done really well. He's heard all the negativity, but didn't agree. He said we got the player we targeted and have 4 picks inside 47. And this was before Balic for 66. Name the last gun tall (AA squad quality) to be wrenched out of a club after 3 years and 50 games ?

...

You mean you wanted more proof ? "WHY ARE AFL clubs lining up to offer a still-developing key defender from Adelaide a lucrative contract comparable to deals given to some of the game's very best?" http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-06-22/why-are-clubs-so-keen-to-lure-jake-lever Hawthorn is mentioned in the next article. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jake-lever-likely-to-remain-at-adelaide-despite-big-offers-from-rival-clubs/news-story/febf1ccec421f2c1247c973fd67b6993 You're a dope and I won't be wasting any more time on you.

If I was you I'd abandon logic as a reference point. There wouldn't have been a club in Victoria who wouldn't want Lever on their list, although for some, like Carlton, he wouldn't be a priority. The final 3 clubs interested in Lever were the Dees, Pies, and Dogs, but others had shown interest back in March. But you'd know this even if you just took a passing interest in footy. Tom Browne ✔@TomBrowne7 Understand @CollingwoodFC @stkildafc @NMFCOfficial have all made significant indicative offers on @Adelaide_FC Jake Lever 7:09 PM - Mar 7, 2017 66 Replies 99 Retweets 2323 likes

Pick 21, 31, 41, or 51, the club and leadership group wanted him out. We allowed him to choose a preferred club and got the best pick available under the circumstances. Deal with it. Or don't. Preferably don't.

Every coach in history rates players differently. Every coach in history has ended careers. And every coach in history has made mistakes. Picking out a decision here or there means nothing.

You hope your unsubstantiated "feelings" are wrong ?

Run for your life. The intellectuals are coming.

It's well known in the footy industry Deledio was nudged out. It didn't seem to set Richmond back.