dieter

Well put, Jara. Like, you, Jara, my sympathies are absolutely and totally for the people whose lives were totally ruined by the Nazis, even more so for the poor, innocent people who lost their lives during that period. However, I simply fail to understand how the survivors of this massive tragedy can then turn around and inflict what the Israelis have inflicted on the Palestinians. My understanding is that the figure of dead Palestinians since and including 1947 is astronomically high and of course will be heatedly disputed by the Zionists. What is indisputable is that the ratio of deaths is obscenely high and makes the claim that Israel is 'defending' its borders so outrageous that it beggars belief. You may have heard of a television Drama series shown on SBS called The Promise. It was made by a Jewish director Peter Kosminsky about the last period of British rule in Palestine and it is based on many interviews with British soldiers and personnel who served during that period. Kosminsky stated in an interview about his film that almost all of the British servicemen were totally sympathetic to the Jewish people of Palestine when they first arrived, but almost to a man, by the time they left their sympathies were all with the Palestinians.

What keeps a man from posting absolute rubbish like this: half a brain.

These are essentially non-sequiturs, Grapeviney. THis has nothing to do with accepting a Jewish homeland. No-one, even Hamas and the PLO, does not accept Israel as a fait accompli - despite all the propaganda and lies to the contrary. All Hamas and the PLO want is a state of their own, the right of return and termination of the strangulation of Gaza. Also, the UN Partition Plan was forced on the Palestinians and before they made the choice of whether to accept or not the Israelis began their merciless onslaught of ethnic cleansing. Even Benny Morris admits this: it's a well known 'secret'. ( What's worse is that Benny Morris justifies it.) Also, have a good look at what the Un planned as its subdivision of Israel and palestine, look at what Israel became after the ethnic cleansing, and we won't even mention what Israel is now since it's occupation of Golan, the West Bank, since it's relentless programme of settlers and creating isolated unconnected enclaves for the native population... Your arguments, Grapeviney are prejudiced and full of emotive non-sequiturs. Re the Peel plan: Report of the Palestine Royal Commission Peel Commission Partition Plan, July 1937 Created July 1937 Ratified 7 July 1937[1] Purpose Investigation of the causes of the 1936 Arab revolt in Palestine The Peel Commission, formally known as the Palestine Royal Commission, was a British Royal Commission of Inquiry, headed by Lord Peel, appointed in 1936 to investigate the causes of unrest in Mandatory Palestine, which was administered by Britain, following the six-month-long Arab general strike in Mandatory Palestine. On July 7, 1937, the commission published a report that, for the first time, stated that the League of Nations Mandate had become unworkable and recommended partition.[2] The British cabinet endorsed the Partition plan in principle, but requested more information.[3] Following the publication, in 1938 the Woodhead Commission was appointed to examine it in detail and recommend an actual partition plan. The Arabs opposed the partition plan and condemned it unanimously.[4] The Arab High Committee opposed the idea of a Jewish state[5] and called for an independent state of Palestine, "with protection of all legitimate Jewish and other minority rights and safeguarding of reasonable British interests".[6] They also demanded cessation of all Jewish immigration and land purchase.[5] They argued that the creation of a Jewish state and lack of independent Palestine was a betrayal of the word given by Britain.[3][7] The Zionist leadership was bitterly divided over the plan.[5] In a resolution adopted at the 1937 Zionist Congress, the delegates rejected the specific partition plan. Yet the principle of partition is generally thought to have been "accepted" or "not rejected outright" by any major faction: the delegates empowered the leadership to pursue future negotiations.[5][8][9][10] The Jewish Agency Council later attached a request that a conference be convened to explore a peaceful settlement in terms of an undivided Palestine.[5] According to Benny Morris, Ben-Gurion and Weizmann saw it 'as a stepping stone to some further expansion and the eventual takeover of the whole of Palestine'' I also note your total silence about me urging people to read the alternative Israeli Narrative, the narrative written by Jews who have no track with the brutality of the Israeli regime, historians like Pappe, Sand etc, notable critics like Peled.

Robert Richter represents George Pell.

I'm glad you took the trouble to read it. Unfortunately, Israel has subjected the world to an unrelenting barrage of lies and propaganda about Hamas, completely ignoring that essentially it helped establish it because they wanted to counter Arafat. The barrage was repeated by Greg Sheridan - something he does at every opportunity - on Q and A on Monday. Interesting character, Greg Sheridan. I recall him predicting that before the current pope was 'elected' his mate George Pell would get the nod. Now that would have been an interesting scenario... Also, I urge you to read Shlomo Sand's books, and Ilan Pappe's, and Miko Peled's 'The General's son.'

He's always picking on me, that DC. He's a flat track bully boy...

I don't think I'm being paranoid, but I suspect PD is referring to me. Interesting that the Censors on this site allow this kind of racial vilification... Fortunately, though, I don't live in Balwyn. Close, PD, but not quite on target. Keep aiming young man, you'll get there in the end is my advice to you...

What assertions? The kind of assertions Netanyahu makes???? Don't you have anything better to do???? Some of us have brains and we like to use them..

Physician/ Morticia/ Surgeon, any would do. Sounds like a Lobotomy would be a kind prognosis. No doubt, this post will be 'censored' but I don't see how it's any different to any of PD's insane 'Leftie' accusations.

As I said, a very long time ago, why the hell do we bother arguing with fascist fanatics?

So because PG signed off on it a Tradie who doesn't train his staff properly is totally innocent because PG signed off. Great, Pg signed off, I don't care if you die, boy, I'm not going to train you, you're on your own kid, if you die, it's PG's fault. I like your logic, ET, as in DON'T...

Like I wrote initially, ProDee has a deep reserve of Israeli condoned/produced bulldust which relies mainly on fiction and downright atrocious lies.

You sure have a deep pool of lies and propaganda...Keep dredging in your cesspool, ProDee, you belong there...

Yes, but we need to focus on the big picture: fundamentalist idiots like Greg Sheridan take the bait and feed it to the masses, that Hamas is a Muslim Terrorist group. Like I say, Islam has absolutely nothing to do with the Colonialist takeover of Palestine, a region that accommodated each and every religion for centuries. Well, until the Crusades when so-called Christian propaganda and intolerance created the atrocities the Crusaders committed, in god's name, would you believe?

That's it, Et, blame Garrett for the greed and ineptitude of Tradies who rather than training their staff were just happy to make a quick buck.

No Thanks. I've had a gutful of Israeli lies and propaganda and half truths and phony history shoved up my clacker. If I were you, I'd read Miko Peled, Shlomo Sand and Ilan Pappe. All Israeli Jews who see Israel for what it is. Two of them are Historians, the other is the son of one of Israel's most famous generals. All of them would know much more about this topic than the likes of you.

Googlly bowler...

You ought to talk. At least I have a brain. All you have in your armory is the ability to snipe...

I had a brain fade: I can't believe I forgot to include Melksham. In hindsight I would have given him 4, Jones 3, Brayshaw 2 and Gawn 1.

Hi Nutbean I too find you great to chat with and I appreciate your opinions. However, I must take you up on the notion that this is a centuries old problem. If you mean this problem originated in the very late 19th century when Zionists starting buying Palestinian land then I grant it is centuries old. Other than that, please allow me to remind you that before british Mandate 'rule', Jerusalem was the epicentre of the Judaic religion and its offsprings Christianity and the Muslim faith. As far as I know under the Ottomans each managed to live with each other in harmony and peace. Allow me to remind you that the problem arose when the Palestinian population got wind of the end goal of Zionism, namely to take their land, by hook or by crook - witness Deir yassin and all of the other less publicized examplesthnic cleansing.

Hi Jara Please, this has nothing to do with Indonesia or Muslims. Please remember that Palestine before the Balfour and the Brits 'gave' it to the Zionists - as though it ever belonged to them in the first place - was an entity consisting of Muslims, Christians of many denominations, that the concept of Palestine has absolutely nothing to do with Muslim Extremism. That's really clouding the argument and falling into the Muslim equals Terrorist paradigm which has been deliberately 'constructed' by recent Neo-Con extremists.

That is another lie, nut. Aarafat and Hamas have accepted Israel. Haaretz: How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel? Netanyahu’s new 'Jewish state' mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine. Hussein Ibish Mar 13, 2014 4:30 PM

Jaysus, I would have thought it was the Palestinians who were in the life or death struggle. Never mind, I guess that's what propaganda does, it turns the victims into the aggressors. What a sad, pathetic, sick joke.

'....Thanks to the Mossad, Israel’s “Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks”, the Hamas was allowed to reinforce its presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, Arafat’s Fatah Movement for National Liberation as well as the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression and intimidation Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, “Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)”.

You are not only racist, sir, you are also a very crude example of blatant sexism. Like Choke, I do not understand why you are not banned from this site.