Rhino Richards

Do you know how much?

So how is it cheaper to pay $900k for a player who injured with OP? That was the question.

He was let go because he had deteroriated as a player and was also being paid well above what he was delivering. He has become a one paced midfielder who could not win contested ball in the midfield. Yze was paid big bucks because he was performing as a top line midfielder in 2002 and was AA in that year. Its a pity that from 2003 onwards we saw a different Yze. However it is not relevant. ND and MFC made a deifinitive comment that the side that went into the 2002 final against Adelaide would not take us to a flag and changes had to be made. One of the components was the lack of hard inside midfielders (the likes of McLean, Sylvia and Moloney). In addressing that need Woey did not fit that requirement. MFC did not accept Woey as a pay cut because he did not fit the criteria the Club wanted to address the shortcomings. For the record, MFC were contracted to pay Woey the higher back ended amount and they were able to afford it. Part of the problem was the back ended contract could be paid but it had to come at the sacrifice of some other player on the list. MFC did not want to make that sacrifice for a player whose performance was rightly assessed as deteriorating. Your revisionism would make an ardent Creationist blush.

Correct Pants

I will. At the end of 2002, MFC took the brave decision that the structure of the current side was not going to take us further and that changes had to be made. One of them was the make up of our midfield. We had a player who after having workmanlike effort to win the BM in 2000 had been unable to sustain that form and in fact was a 3rd or 4th rung player in the midfield. Furthermore we paying roll royce fees for a camry performance. The footy department took the view we would seriously challenge for 2 to 3 years and that an overpaid deteriorating footballer had more market in 2002 then once he his contract was up in 2004. He joined Collingwood and played a fourth rung role behind a better midfield in Buckley, Burns and Licuria. He lived well that year off them (like he had done off the unsung heroics of Powell, Rigoni and Leoncelli in 2000). But as he his time went on with the Pies, the game got quicker and Woey got slower and slower. He was slow in a midfield that was getting slower. It was a good move for MFC it acted when it did.

We trade to improve the list. Your issues are all easily resolvable. They were with Woewodin. I merged three threads yesterday which were all hitting on the same topic.

Teams who finished higher in the 8 should reap the benefits of a potentially easier finals run. This system rewards the best against the best. Otherwise it incentives a team to finish 8th as against 1 and to win only 12 games as opposed to 17 or more games. A cash incentive only makes the rich and successful clubs richer relative to poor. A cash entitlement in lieu of a flag undermines the integrity of the pursuit of a flag. Furthermore giving successful clubs draft picks further undermines core competitiveness of the system and provides a potentially enduring leg up for that team beyond the year in which they were successful. That would be grossly unfair and in equitable. Talk about leniency! The system works well...why complicate it and undermine the competitiveness and the rewards.

Completely agree with Pants on this one.

How can realistically say the $1mil is over the top when you would take him at a 10% discount for an injury that could severely curtail his career?

In concept Yes. In reality No. Any trade must be considered for what it provides to your overall list going forward. Realistically, this will normally only be capable with 1 or 2 players and not your everyone on your list.

Its a good point about the lack of defensive pressure by TJ. Its contradicts your earlier statement that TJ runs hard all game. To run hard all game requires you to run hard when you have the ball and when you dont. TJ does not do this. He is lazy and laconic and has often tried to coast on his skills. He getting founf out more these days. Teams play a hard tag him. He does not like but does he seek to create distance between he and his direct opponent? Hardly...and only when his opponent runs off him. Its an idictment that he is regularly seen pointing to his teammates to pick up an opponent. Now would that sort of player be tolerated in Geelong's team ATM?

Its clear our list has suffered at the older end by not delisting more players in the past and not carefully assessing the future contributions of other players. A few brave moves should have been made in the past and hopefully will be made over the next 12 months I dont think our Club has been in premiership mode at all. Its struggled and limped into make the eight in the past three years and battled to win a final.

He is 28 now. He has struggled regularly with a variety of injuries at the business end of the season and has missed much of 2000,2004 and 2005 finals. Trading at 25 and fit would have had some value. Now we are left with an injury plagued player who struggles to run out a season and whose game has deteriorated. He just becomes deadwood on the list. We need to act on other senior players who offer us potentially declining value but may hold some value to other sides who have deficiencies to plug to ensure we do not continue to a perpetual pension plan for players who have clearly passed their use by date.

Juice will only have a bigger impact on a game when Juice consistently applies what is required for AFL. Neitz is not restricting or holding Juice back. If any thing he should be a suuport to Newton. We have to get rid of PJ and/or Jamar. Neither are up to AFL. If we can trade either lets do it. If cant send them packing. MFC needs to trade in an experienced ruckman to at least support and then take over from White. We also need to rookie another ruckman. Its a fair comparison of Jamar and Neaves. Both are not up to it at the moment. Neaves is ponderous at VFL level and I am not convinced he has shown enough to be picked up.

Absloutely right Old. We should learn from it Its two years late to trade Whelan. His form, fitness and currency on the market are low. There are other MFC players we should be looking at to trade.

The inclusion of the MFC players (if at all possible last week given that we had only 26 fit men for the Carlton game) was marginal benefit. The players outlined in the best IMO just went and the others like Dunn and Newton were ordinary. Neither looked focussed or committed. To be fair I thought Sandy were ordinary across the ground and the lack of cohesion in their game was evident.

MFC had 26 fit players to select from for the final round of 2007. Who could they have possibly rested that would have qualified for Sandy and made a difference? The chronic run of injuries suffered by MFC meant that players like Godders, Ferg and Co were playing AFL rather than qualifying for VFL games. Sandy brought in six MFC AFL players who did diddly squat against North Ballarat. So its a mute point about resting MFC players.

Unfortunately, the "leadership" exhibited by TJ is not the sort that develops successful teams. No one doubt his skills but he is lazy and his application of those skills is poor. I just dont like players who point to others to pick players they wont pick up and do not do the hard yards. In 10 years at the Club he has been an chronic underperformer on his talent pool. TJ shows about as much leadership as school kid leading a gameboy slumber party. Its says alot about a Club when supporter dream that a new coach will change a player when it is 100% the responsibility of the player himself. The trading of Woewodin was a courageous and sensible move. I hope Bailey treats likewise for a good deal for a few other overrated unperforming sacred cows.

Cats should be laughing either way. WCE are on the ropes with no midfield and their season on and off the ground has been long. Eagles will travel to the G to get crushed. No midfield...no hope. If Collingwood prevail, it will take a big effort and they may played their "grand final" over in the West prior to the preliminary final against the Cats. The other side of the draw is an interesting one. Port Power will be sweating on this one if Hawks win against Kangas. Hawks beat them at Football Park earlier this year but were embarrassed by the Crows later in the year. If Franklin is on fire, Hawks could get to a GF. FWIW, I cant see Kangas bouncing back. They were humiliated today and stripped bare.

A case of unnecessary pretence getting in the way of basic reason or logic . And Classy is right on the numbering of players as a consequence.

Fully agree Zman. However, I must say that NB had it all over Sandy who were lax, undisciplined and inept. Little teamwork and generally some really powderpuff efforts at the contest. I thought the MFC listed players either just went or thought their season finished last week. Some of them wont be playing in the red and blue next year. FWIW, I would expect some Sandy senior players may move on now the 4 in a row is over. Overall very sloppy after quarter time and the Zebras deserved to lose.

After last night it is obvious that Judd's groin complaint (OP??) has made him a virtual cripple. I hope we dont get into a bidding war for him. Caveat emptor!

I would put John Townsend ahead of both. TJ has been a chronic underachiever over 10 years at MFC. The Number 16 has not been a number at MFC with a roll call of greats. Alan Johnson and Laurie Fowler as well (Won 3 or 4 Blueys)

Well done Graz. And good choice Franky on the drop. I would have thought the following would have qualified: 22: Shane McGrath in the 40s must have been close to 3 flags 40,41 and 48 23: R Wartman classy midfielder with 3 flags 1939-41 24: Its Tiger's but Percy Beames can feel stiff to miss 26: Ian Thorogood had good claims with 3 to 4 flags However when you look through the names (and take another sip of red) you realise that since the late 60s we have churned some real crud through the list with too few quality players amongst them.

Thank you Krazy for your fine efforts. It was an interesting read.