Rhino Richards

I think there were so many aspects of Flower that make him unrivalled in time watching MFC. His loyalty was no doubt one of them. However, I would also put players like Hardeman, Alves and Wells in the same category. Underpaid, under recognised and in many cases treated abysmally by the Club. However, the use of the term " bleeds for the jumper" on this Forum is erroneous because it implies a distinguishing feature of one player that another player does not have and places that "bleeding" B) player on some higher plane of entitlement, performance etc,. . Its carp. Its as bad as identifying that a possible or prospective player from another Club is worth a look on the basis that one of the reasons is that he barracked for MFC as a kid.

Thanks Franky and Oley. It clearly did grow legs!! I think it was that incident and some of Everett's early racial taunts that rely sparked awareness and action.

Disturbing and repugnant.

Great memories. The last 5 rounds of the season then the Western Oval triumph then the elim final (NM) and qual final (Sydney) were magical. I still cant watch the 87 Prelim final in any part. I spent about 1 and 1/2 hours trying to leave the carpark after the game. God it was awful.

Then why do you post such rubbish!! No one here has scapegoated him at all.

Why? He was not any good. Fowler was sensational at MFC and won 3 or 4 Blueys.

Do a Forum search on Robert Flower. There are a number of threads on Flower with some great posts. Best footballer I have ever seen in an MFC jumper in the past 40 years. Peerless, inspiring, courageous, skillful and just so damn good. Superb in the air and on the ground and on both sides of his body. I think he would still be good a modern player. Might have to do some weights though.

Its a great celebration. I would like to nominate Nicky Winmar for the AFL Hall of Fame for doing one of the most famous, brave and inspiring acts I have ever seen on a football field when he lifted his St K jumper and showed them the pride in the colour of his skin to racist taunts of the Collingwood crowd at Victoria Park. For those too young, Victoria Park, particularly the Collingwood members flank was one of the most abusive and nasty sections of football spectators in Australia. There treatment of opposition players particularly coloured was well known. It was a small step to start the total re education of the VFL/AFL and the public about the manner in which indigenous people are regarded treated and respected in life. A wonderful act that was so important in igniting change in the affairs of indigenous people. May they continue to prosper and flourish and bring their special skills to the game.

Last week was his first game back after injury and did not put in a full game. Hopefully this week he will come through and get selected in the 1s.

All three I understand are out of contract this year and finished in the AFL. There is a big broom that is going to sweep them and Wallace with others out of Tigerland. I doubt it. But it would be good for MFC if they do get more than 5 wins this year.

Indeed it is.

Fair call. The issues of his selfishness have been over a number of games that have clearly infuriated the coaching staff. Its interesting that Eagles wanted to keep him but were prepared to fire sell him at pick 35 to Richmond. Talent wise Richmond got a good deal. The issue is the discipline and adherence to team rules. Morton has potential but certainly does not have the runs on the board that Del Santo does and acheived little in his career to date. Talented but selfish and undisciplined players are a dime a dozen. I think players that are not prepared to abide by the team plan and team rules are a negative on the playing group and coaching team. Over time if the player does not address this it can sow the seeds of disunity and disruption at a Club. And it does not have to be a social delinquent like Angwin to be a detriment to Club culture.

I heard the same comments about Hawthorn before they won this year. If they have not won a flag they are seriously challenge this year and probably in the next couple of years as well I was once shown some statistics of drafing over the past 10 years and the results shows you have a greater probability of picking the better footballers in the first round than in later rounds. We can all come around with a first round dud and a fifth year star. If your recruiting team does there job properly then you should land the best players of that year in your line up. For example last year, the NSM was Luke Hodge (pick 2 2001), Coleman Medallist Franklin (Pick 4 2004) and the B'low Medallist (Cooney Pick 1 -2003) Hmmmm!! You both overlooked a couple of key players and severely underestimated the talent of a number of players. Goodes, Kenneally, Barry, O'Loughlin and the other Bolton for starters. Hall is a loose fuse at times and is coming to the end of his career. However at his peak Hall was an elite power forward who was an influence and smart football talent. When Sydney traded for Hall they knew with O'Loughlin they had players they could build a premiership side around and actively traded for players to supplement their list to make hay while the sun shined. Just shows the importance of a potent and damaging midfield. We dont have one yet. I think the evidence of the importance of draft picks to build talent is definitely out there. Even more so with the decline of the end of season trade and that few clubs are blessed with great father/son options. It has also brought the importance of getting rookie selections right as well. No longer are they are uneducated punt on a young player.

Alternatively they could end up with Adam Cooney Farren Ray Colin Sylvia Thats 1 out of 3 there.!

Who feels good about it?? The issue is that we need to realistic as to where our list is and its gone through a complete overhaul in two year or so. Given the lack of leading contributing senior players and the high number of talented but inexperienced kids on the list the past two years were always about rebuilding and development. I think we are developing a very successful culture both on and off the field. But it takes time to develop young footballers. The thing that all premiership teams have is they have a good list headed at two players who are elite or stars. The next 12 to 14 players are either very good or talented players. We need to build that list. Leigh Matthews wrote an article earlier this year where he said that having the talent on the list is 80% of the job. The coach, the game plan and other things like injury run/ tribunal reliefs etc make up the 20%. In essence a premiership team needs all those things to go right. Ultimately MFC need to continue to add and develop that list. There is alot of promise on that list already but IMO we need another crack midfielder, another quality forward and a more than capable ruckman to fill it out. As for bottom out rebuilds, I dont think it stops at Hawthorn. St Kilda was rebuild and alot of the key elements of their line up comae together 7 to 8 years ago from top picks. Carlton are on that trend. Geelong was likewise (although graciously help by 3 to 5 father son selections, two of which Ablett and Scarlett are outstanding elite players).

Agree Vanlo. I understand that CAC rated Morton ahead of Masten. MFC weree very excited that Morton was still there at four. I am not sure all Clubs had Kruezer No 1 pick that year. Cotchin was rated as good a prospect as Kruezer. There are two issues here. 1. The game that really stuffed us up in 2007 was beating a listless WBulldogs a couple of weeks before the end of the season. 2. Re R22, after beating Carlton in R 14(?) of that year in a very low standard game we were always odds on to beat them again in R22. This was all the more likely when Carlton took their foot off the gas and judicially used the interchange to bench key players in the rounds and dog the last half of a couple of games leading up to R 22. The failure of Carlton to tag TJ in R22 was unbelievable but not out of the bounds for the way they had handled the season. Even during the game as TJ fired early they took no plausible steps to shut him down. Carlton know they had Judd for 2008 and they clearly gave Ratten an undertaking that regardless of his poor win/loss ratio that he would get the Carlton job. MFC weren't helped by advising Riley that his caretaking role performance would come into consideration when choosing for the top job at MFC and he played to win.

Its seems that way. The Dog is definitely on life support...just.

Doubt it. They would be 2 wins from 8 games. He is still in the gun. Unless their candidate is from Kazakhstan I doubt it. If the Board does not act or be seen to act proactively then what Coash will want to coach a side with a Board that vacillates. Everyone knows the Tigers are in a mess and their procrastinations only make it worse. Gee they would not be the voice of self interest coming forth would it? Yes isnt it!! B)

Selfish and undisciplined on the field at both Clubs. Off field issues did not help at WCE. His inabilty to abide by the team rules have already seen him dropped for disciplinary reasons at Richmond. His efforts against PA and subsequent reaction post match evidence that this continues.

They dont have the worst ruck division. In last years GF and during the season Taylor and Campbell capably competed against and either nullified and beat a number of other ruck combinations.

Agree. I dont see how the denigration of the efforts of previous administrations whether done on this Forum or at a Club function does the MFC any benefit. I suggest when dealing with this clearly emotive issue that posters avoid innuendo and rumour.

Thats got little to do why Morton has been culture problem at 2 clubs. The issues with Morton are not specific to Wallet. Wallet will be gone within a month and Morton will still be a [censored].

I was not aware that Hawthorn had any of the elite players on the Visy payroll. Their questionable list management extends through a number of years not just 2007. How they managed to fit Warnock at $400k a year and make a pitch for Ryan O'Keeffe last year beggars belief.

The issue with Wallace may well be contractual and not focussed on losing games. Having a carcass for a Coach only feeds the media frenzy. A smarter club would have realised the situation and taken steps to get it resolved.

Carp. No coach wants to instil the malignant antics that bring players down in performance. And as you pointed out with Steve Johnson. Its the player that changes personal selfishness not the coach. Axis of Bob is correct about Morton.