Rhino Richards

Rather than hijack the thread onto game plans, do you think you will be in a better position to answer that question after 11 rounds next year when we will still have a younger side with still developing strengths in order for you to make a longer term commitment to Bailey? I doubt it but go ahead and try.

Or Brisbane trading pick 14 for Johnstone.

Before you light your torch, it would be best to actually understand why the injuries occurred then take appropriate action. Put the firing squad on hold.

No. Your just not seeing things at all. His coaching will be the same as it has been to keep developing the kids. Next year he has at least half a dozen players playing their first full season who will arguably be best 22. Watts, Blease, Strauss, Scully, Trengove, Pick 18, Jurrah and Spencer...I have given you 8. If think that alot changes from last year your fooled easily. We will struggle again next year with greater glimmers of hope. What do you expect to know now at QBW next year that will give you comfort to givev Bailey a three year contract out to 2013. If he reaches your misguided metric he will demand nothing less and you are in a worse position. I and others have clearly outlined what the issues are about QBW next year. CLearly you dont read and much prefer to switch the mind off on cliches which prevent you from thinking clearly through the issues. You can bet your balls all you like but you will be left a eunich after the negotiations with a bigger risk exposure. What happens if things start going south in 2011? What if Bailey cant take a maturing group from the development phase in 2011- 2012? What are you going to do then? Shift your head in the sand a little. You will be screwed at the most critical part of your 7 year window and paying top dollar in the process. Great outcome for a Club that's broke and living on AFL handouts. Good business. Oh dear. You complain of MFC being a soft target and your thinking would leave MFC with all the hallmarks of a sporting marshmallow. I am sure Schwab and Co have more sense and savvy than shown here.

More Cliches - Soft target for 45 odd years. Perceived by many. Dangling a carrot. Your original argument has been shown up for what it is. Its should not be about making a stand to suit your fears of perception. I wonder how you repeatedly rate Bailey highly when you cant make an assessment of him in critical areas or are not prepared to back him as Coach for an extra year. Bizarre. You dont back him at all. Its fluff and only you believe it. There is match day strategy now. You have missed it. As part of the development of these players they are being played in a range of positions to teach them valuable football lessons. They are on a long education process that will continue next year. And you know what you wont see the match strategies then either. He has spent two years trying to develop this side from nothing. He has the carrot but needs the surety to continue the process. Yours is more of the same with unrealistic expectations that will involve the comprising of the long term development for a short term goal. Its not a matter of holding a carrot...its more like a gun to the head. You are offering only a compromised target to allow you a feel good metric to be ultimately done over when it comes to renegotiating a contract next year without any focus on the longer term. If I were Bailey I would not only screw up the price I would be making sure that Board were aware of your efforts to tamper with the long term development plans. And if position 8 to 10 was achievable, your position would be very unsafe. There is no carrot just another of your cliches which clouds better judgement.

But you think he is a long term coach at Melbourne. You have said he is going to be a premiership coach. You think position 8 to 10 is achievable if injury dont affect us. So how can you say that if you have no faith in his match day tactics?? Serious lack of credibiility coming through WYL. Dont you think he has been pushing himself trying to turn over a crud list in a Club that has been a disaster off the field. How much friggin challenge can you give a bloke?? If you cant work out what Bailey's done to date as a basis for making a decision then sack him now because you want have a clue in the middle of next year particularly with the press at your door. Far from giving him a challenge, you are handing him an insult. Especially if you try the "I think you're premiership coach" bullsh!t. And if he is going to get MFC to the metrics you set he is going to hold you for high ransom for re signing. And so he should. And you will look a goose if you dont sign him and a sitting duck if you do. And if I was a Board member I would be very disturbed with the implications for the Club of your line of thinking. It makes no sense and lacks foresight.

Confirmation received.

Doesn't that highlight how fickle and out of the know the "Football public". And Richmond's occurred because they equivocated over their coaching. Hell, I dont know that at all. I am not sure he will be a long term or premiership coach. That's why I am extending his contract by only one year. Your more confident about Dean than I am...but you wont extend his contract because you're not sure he is a successful. I have not been in a news room before but I can sure smell a contradiction a mile off. And its not a circular reference at all. And no one is bagging Dean So why raise it? Its not relevant if you believe Bails to be a premiership coach. Then why not extend for one year now because if Bails is on track to achieve an 8 to 10 finish and if he is looking like a final prospect, you are going to have to pay plenty and long term ( 2 to 3 years) for him. 8 to 10 position is likely to involve 10 to 13 wins. FWIW, you are going to be mightly dissappointed next year. I reckon this side is good for 6 to 8 wins. Anything more is a bonus. You are going to be very depressed next year. Either extend him or sack him now.

I am sure I have already explained to you the complexities and implications of paying out a contract early just because you think a player is a dud. At first I thought you were naive now.. and its got nothing to do with integrity..

No The coaching he is actually being judged on has been happening for two years already. And Fact - You with 10 years experience in the News room should know better than to label something as "Fact" when it is not. And who gives a rats clacker what the "Football public" thinks. And for that matter I care even less for comfirming how little they know. This sides progress to a successful team wont be as quick as a 2 minute cup a soup! Bailey will have less experienced team next year and will be blooding at least 6 future stars next year that have either not played AFL or played precious little. I want him to develop them as footballers not chew them through for cheap victories. He does need to show improvement next year in the players but some of that will not be readily apparent on the scoreboard. This is still a very green team with little experience at the top. I think Bob and I have been around the block a few times to know how the media (mis) behaves. Its not an exclusive the the media room old boys club. Bob has nailed the issue well Good. Well back him on terms the Club will at least have some negotiating leverage. And also do it in good faith given the sh!t Bailey has had to deal with off the field and the dedication he has put into a long term plan. If you dont act on this belief then his manager will hold you over a barrel. And dont the media love a footy dept that sits on its hands while Rome burns!

There are least 5 players in the eligible stakes that are up for delisting this year. If they get injured while playing for Casey, MFC could be up for half their salary each in medical expenses. And I am sure some poster will say "Surely they could let the ones they are going to keep next year, play on" The issue is dont risk it.

Death by a 1000 cliches. Yes lets get tough and screw over the coach. That sets a good standard ra ra rah. If you cant see the incentive Bailey is working with to develop a team by sacrificing victories now then you are never going to see it So what if there are injuries also? And at the mid point and Bailey is meeting your criteria, how many years would you give him? Remember, he is doing well and if your offer is low he will walk away and then you will look really stupid. There is no gurarantee that what you will see mid year will be indicative of what you might get longer term. If we are doing well next year, he or his manager will have you over a barrel and rightly so for a longer term and more money as well. I suggest the extension of one year on existing terms (given he has not yet proved himself) gives you the best of both worlds. If you cant get your mind around that then you should be prepared to sack Bailey now. Chances are you'll wont be certain mid year and if you are you will be paying for a longer contract at higher dollars. Its a two way street negotiation for a coaching role. Just dont be the one naive bending over the barrel on terms set by the other party saying "Yes Please".

It a fallacy that in someway Robbo of recent seasons takes and copes with the No 1 defender. Too often with this match up, the opposition defender plays like a loose man in defence with little or no defensive pressure who knows that when the ball hits the ground Robbo will have little or no 2nd effort and cant effectively chase. Good form??? Oh dear. He had a good day last week but he has some really terrible outings of recent and if it was not for experimentation and the long injury list his Casey form had not warranted elevation. I can stand Newton being a dud....but If he does not bleed for the Club then he goes. How dare he? Now why is that important? Hmmm. Hey wait he bleeds red and blue! Which players dont by the way besides Newton?

Cotchin,Foley, Vickery, Pick 6. I'd like higher for Jamar but cant see how we'll get it. Pick 19 is too low and they wont give pick 6.

At 1 and 11, the season is stil alive and mathematically the finals are still possible. Even more so at 2-10, 3-9, 4-8. So what if you're not going to renew his contract at the end of Rd 12 and the season is still alive? Do you sack him and derail the year completely? Fact is you cant keep your head in the sand until then. The call will have to made earlier on the extension. If you are still tossing up at QBW whether to extend his contract then you should sack him because a Coach should have the complete support of the Board. rpfc's post is on the money here.

Most contracts have terms of performance for each player some general. some player specific. If there was any truth to the SEN, like everyone I doubt it, then I can only think that there may be reason for terminating the contract. Sometimes these things can be done mutually (eg Nicholson) This is all speculation. I have no inside information on Newton. Unlike some supporters clubs just dont "sack" players and pay out contracts. All I know is that Newton is contracted for next year. My only comment on Newton's contract value is that common sense would tell you that as a fringe player he would hardly be sucking up too many valuable dollars of the salary pool.

Prismall wanted Essendon due to lack of opportunities at Geelong. Prismall did not want to go to MFC. Geelong had to free up salary cap. Prismall was also overcoming a serious knee injury. Third round is what was reasonable. How do you think other GFC players and their managers would have felt about playing at GFC if GFC just said stuff you we are trading you to Melbourne. Why would MFC trade pick 19 for a capable not outstanding player with recovering knee injury that did not want to play for them? MFC had greater need to secure a young ruckman and we were in the mix for Warnock. It remains to be seen whether Prismall or Warnock will be better. But a fit Warnock would be a real plus for MFC given its list. I think Carlton will reap the benefits too....but at a steep cost.

The basis for your first sentence is factually wrong and fundamentally flawed Bailey made a push for Warnock. He went to Vi$y on a contract we could not and would not match. Prismall was 22 when he went into the draft and was not mature age. Prismall did not want to go to Melbourne so it was not a matter of trading pick 19. Never let the facts get.....

And some of the worst games as well. Any thought that Jamar was not fit? <_<

Pot calling kettle black Dan. For someone that wants to dispute my assertions on Jamar, you put up little else on PJ being his equal beyond "would have, could have might have". But you know what in six years of senior football he just hasn't. And the only excuses supporters of PJ has is just that... excuses. He has all these nice to have "talents" yet noe of the need to have talents and thus cannot make any impact on a game. I am sure when PJ's career is finished, his supporters will say he was never given the opportunity. Nothing could be further from the truth. He has had a gilt edged opportunity this year with injuries to Spencer, Jamar and Meesen. Thats real opportunity that not even Jamar has had. And as for game time, PJ has played nearly every game and on the ground nearly all the time due to lack of options. He he has shown he is just not good enough. Dan, I have let PJ go along time ago when I recognised where he was at. Maybe its you that need to let to go.

How do you handle a breach of contract deanox where there is non performance of key terms of the contract by one party? We need at six delistings. We have three delists/retirements. Look no one hates Newton but there have been some tasteless and disrespectful posts deleted. Just for the record BBP, Newton was signed to a 2 year contract prior to the end of 2008 at a time when we had no forward options. He is not on big coin so it aint breaking the bank. And given our lack of options up forward we need to exhaust every avenue. He is not going to make an AFL player. And you would be the last person to put in charge of sacking having wanted to lynch Bohdan B. for the spate of contact injuires suffered in 2007. Put your torch away and have a lie down.

PJ not only does not do it regularly he just has not nailed a position and he has had more opportunity than Jamar. Jamar might be a long time coming but PJ is not in sight of the station. Over his career he has kicked 27.10. Hardly a bad shot at goal. 5.0 is 5 goals straight from shots out around 40 metres. It was a good effort We should be looking to rookie another ruck. I am not sure there is a capable big man in this draft.

Great post. Absolutely agree. I cant understand people's loathing of the AFL's success particularly with TV rights. Its the TV rights thats been underwriting MFC existence. The next step for the AFL has to Qld/NSW. They have already conquered Tasmania and there is little or any growth there. And Bub. Canberra is a small backwater (Sorry Graz and DD!) that does not really support AFL sufficiently from the Swans/Roos experiences.

While I agree, I think many of those inside 50s for them started in their backline where our overly tall forward line had no crumbers and too many times Carlton cleared easily when the ball hit the deck. I was struck a number of times how each side linked up from their back line and moved the ball forward to score without the opposition touching it.

There are no certainties in this approach. We are however giving ourselves the best possible chance to do so.