mo64

Nobody is saying that as purely a tap ruckman, Spencer is inadequate. He can compete at centre bounces. But you can't deny that he's inadequate around the ground. The fact that posters need to bring up individual highlights or a game to defend Spencer suggests that AFL standard football has been few and far between. My point is that if Frost can equally compete as a 2nd ruckman as Spencer, and offers more around the ground, why wouldn't you play him as backup to Gawn and use Pedersen in Frost's role.

I'm one who cares about practice matches / NAB Cup. For years I've read on here the old chestnut "it's only a practice match" as if an ordinary display by the team is some sort of anomaly, and we're going to flick the switch for the season proper. It just never happens. I'm interested in seeing some signs of a more attacking gameplan under Goodwin, and whether we can actually move the ball with some purpose out of the backline. If we are to get beaten, I'd rather it be a scoreline of 20 goals to 15 than 10 to 5.

That made sense at the time because Jamar was injury prone and nearing the end, whilst Gawn had question marks due to his injury history and lack of fitness. Gawn is the number 1 option by the length of the Flemington straight. If Frost shows something as a 2nd ruck, I wouldn't be surprised if he and Pedersen assume ruck duties if Gawn gets injured.

If Spencer wasn't under contract, I reckon we would have delisted him, and rookie listed a mature aged ruckman (24yo +) from the state leagues. I'm sure that there are some out there with a better skillset than Spencer.

And ProDee's post wasn't peronal? I note that you and ProDee seem to have a mutual admiration of each others reviews. Oh, and ProDee. Your initial bagging of Oliver was written at 9.15am, yet you blamed it on the reds. We all enjoy a red with our breakfast.

Sorry Redleg, but that's the sort of mentality that makes us an irrelevancy within the football world. We are where we're at through no fault but ourselves. I'd love us to be an arrogant club that other clubs want to "stick it up". Looking at our list from the outside, we won 7 games last year and lost to St.Kilda x 2, Essendon and Carlton. Our 2nd half of the season was abysmal. We didn't trade in anyone of note, and the only draftee who could potentially be selected early in the season is Oliver. I loved the draftees from the previous year, and if they all build on their debut seasons and Petracca lives up to his hype, we may climb the ladder. But every club bar Essendon will be thinking the same thing at this time of the year. Until we start winning games consistently, we need to suck it up, and accept that people will rubbish the club. That's sport.

Great job by the reporters. Consistent analysis and no sugar coating.

So you have a privileged position on this site of being the only person entitled to their opinion. Mind you, you've covered every base, lol.

Just rewatched some of the early footage, and my assessment stands. I'll try and find some footage that changes my assessment.

My assessment is based on the same footage as you're making your assessment. In congestion he used his physical superiority to fend off players. I question whether he'll get away with it at AFL level. I thought that Parish had far superior football smarts based on the limited footage available. I'm sure Oliver will become a very good AFL player. I just don't believe the hype that was written about him on here after the draft.

You seriously need to reassess your criteria as to what makes an AFL footballer. Like Saty, you seem to have too much of an emotional attachment to the players' personality rather than focus on their abilities and performances.

We'll agree to disagree. You've summed it up well. But 1st year players with "elite skills" generally find a spot, even in the top teams. I question whether Oliver has elite talent. That's not to say that he won't be a very good AFL player.

Are you serious or just taking the pizz? There was nothing in his highlights reel that screamed "elite skills". That's why I'm asking the track watchers whether they've seen signs of elite talent. Adding muscle doesn't change natural talent. If he's elite like Selwood, Wines and many more, he'd be pushing for selection in round 1, but not necessarily as a primary mid.

During preseason training, you always look at the draftees and hope to get a "yeah, I get what the hype was about" moment or two. I haven't been down there this preseason. Have any of the track watchers seen Oliver do something during the match sims that make you go "yeah, he'll be good"?

I agree. Badly worded, and I'll delete it.

Just pointing out that the "blokey" mentality is to side with best mate regardless of the situation, ignoring the fact that Lyon would have been a close friend of Nicky Brownless for a long time.

Great article. Those who are saying that what GL did is a "dog act" are actually denigrating Nicky Brownless and her capacity to make choices as a single woman.

Such as? BB, you strike me as a bloke who seems to get his jollies off with the off-field happenings at a club. And you're happy to character assassinate people who have clearly rubbed you up the wrong way, and hide behind the old line "I can't say why here". If you can't support a statement then don't make the statement in the first place. It just leads to innuendo.

Exactly right. As long as we don't expect them to be our best mid, the highly talented young mids can play from round 1 if their talent warrants.

Drivel on both counts. Post football career, he's never sought to be a paid employee or full-time board member of the club because of his media commitments. That's his prerogative. He's assisted the club in a voluntary capacity upon request. And when you make a statement such as "he just doesn't seem like a good bloke", at least come up with something factual to support it.

GOTO, if the sub rule was still in place, would Oliver get selected earlier than you anticipate? Highly credentialled/drafted young mids tend to get senior games early on, if they have the necessary class. I'm wondering what Oliver lacks compared to say Brayshaw?

Are you saying that Dunstall wasn't a past champion or isn't a good board member? And there's a massive gap between GL doing some honourary work for the club and Hird being appointed head coach. And it's just your opinion that GL wasn't qualified to sit on a panel to select a coach. I've yet to see an official job description for this task. It's pretty obvious that Lyon's personality clouds your opinion of his football intellect.

Now this is the part I don't get. Lyon was one of many on a panel that appointed 2 coaches (Bailey and Neeld), both of whom were from outside the club. Connolly was appointed to assist Bailey, and that was universally applauded at the time. Craig (another outsider) was brought in to assist Neeld, and again the appointment was universally applauded. People on here are just looking for someone to blame, and the highest profile person is the easiest target.

I really don't understand your post. You say that "most" shouldn't get involved, but how do you know who'll be a success or failure unless they do get involved? Jason Dunstall shouldn't have gone on the board at Hawthorn. Are you basing it on the "good bloke" criteria? Garry Lyon rubbed you up the wrong way, so he shouldn't have had any involvement, despite having enormous respect post career within the football community.

You are living in la la land. Go through every club and you'll find ex players being involved at the club in some capacity. Some of those clubs have had incredible success, some haven't. They get involved because they are passionate about the club. If you want your sporting club run by accountants, lawyers and teachers, good for you.