While stats don't mean everything, both Sylvia and CJ have averaged 12 disposals p/game this season. I'd suggest that Sylvia has had far more game time, and if true then in terms of disposals p/minute CJ is getting more of the ball.

Sylvia's had 9 games this season, CJ 3.

Pro-stats comparison

  Rogue said:

Before the Essendon match Sylvia's run of three games netted him ~9 possessions p/game and he'd kicked zilch, playing predominantly as a forward. His greatest output was the 3.3 tackles p/game. There are other stretches where IMO he looked far worse, but I'd read the stats recently so I'm going with this one =)

This is just one example of a kid being shown some faith. If I went back across the last couple of years I'm sure I could find other examples.

Countless AFL players have said they struggled until they felt they were shown some faith and finally felt like they belonged, as opposed to fearing for their spot every game. Coming in and out of the team like a yo-yo is going to make it tough for many players to fulfill their potential IMO.

That's some of your finest Rogue... I think you actually might have changed my mind a little.

Sylvia is a different player. Different size and has OP. These are variables. Also, he has class and abilities that out-strip CJ's finest work. Add to that the fact that he's a pick 3. This SHOULDN'T make a difference, but does I think.

Anyway, back on topic, the 22...

I'm pretty happy with the guys they went with out of the 25. Pickett was never going to play as we know, and Big Bad Bustling Benny was always a Fevola stopper only... if that...

We ALL would have liked to see Dunn. For my part, I wanted to see him in a defensive role perhaps... but the selection makes sense. I kind of always thought Buckley, PJ and Miller were going to get selected... And from Dunn and Frawley I'd thought I'd be happy with either. Whichever one it was going to be, the other is going to play the following week you'd think.

  Rogue said:

While stats don't mean everything, both Sylvia and CJ have averaged 12 disposals p/game this season. I'd suggest that Sylvia has had far more game time, and if true then in terms of disposals p/minute CJ is getting more of the ball.

Sylvia's had 9 games this season, CJ 3.

Pro-stats comparison

Stats mean nothing

Sylvia provides so much more than CJ. Sylvia is arguably the best tackler at the clubl he is tough as nails and his contested marking is well documented. He kicked bags of 3 goals in back to back matches as well

he has it all over CJ

  Yze_Magic said:

Stats mean nothing

Sylvia provides so much more than CJ. Sylvia is arguably the best tackler at the clubl he is tough as nails and his contested marking is well documented. He kicked bags of 3 goals in back to back matches as well

he has it all over CJ

Yep. Different players, different positions. Sylvia, due to OP, has been predominantly an impact forward with the occasional run in the mid field. CJ is a running defender. You should really be comparing his stats with Ward, Wheatley, Bell etc. The only reason he is in this week is because Bell is injured.

  Dappa Dan said:

Whichever one it was going to be, the other is going to play the following week you'd think.

And that should be the best aspect of the next, however many weeks......

There is nothing wrong with the team for Sunday, because to my way of thinking there will likely be a number of changes from week to week, as it is (or seems) more important to see what everyone is capable of (from the more senior players trying to hold down a spot, to the kids trying to gain one) than it is to win.

As so many people have said 2008 has started, and while Lynden Dunn unfortunately didn't get a call up this week, I have little to no doubt he will definitely play for the Dees within the next couple of weeks at most, since hopefully that is what they are going to do from now until the end of the season.

I truly hope for a win tomorrow, and while the injuries have continued to be an unfortunate underline to our season it does give the team the opportunity to have a bit of trial and error over the next few weeks. And I am really looking forward to watching, what is a pretty young side go out and give Carlton a very hefty shake.

I also hope to see the best from all those that have been selected against Carlton and beyond, because the next few rounds are going to be very important to some who are trying to learn and make their way in this code, and to others as they try to make sure they put their best forward to remain on our list.

Could be a fascinating second half !!!

  warren dean said:

Yep. Different players, different positions. Sylvia, due to OP, has been predominantly an impact forward with the occasional run in the mid field. CJ is a running defender. You should really be comparing his stats with Ward, Wheatley, Bell etc. The only reason he is in this week is because Bell is injured.

Okay, so Sylvia was playing as a forward but couldn't even manage to put a score on the board in three weeks

On a serious note, if you think my assertion was that CJ is a better player than Sylvia, would have done a better job, or anything remotely like that, then you're missing the point. The stats were simply a recent illustration of my ramblings earlier in the thread - they show a young player being persevered with despite not doing terribly much.

As I said, if I had time to go back through the last couple of years I'm sure I could find many more examples of kids being shown some faith, despite having lacklustre output.

  QueenC said:

As so many people have said 2008 has started, and while Lynden Dunn unfortunately didn't get a call up this week, I have little to no doubt he will definitely play for the Dees within the next couple of weeks at most, since hopefully that is what they are going to do from now until the end of the season.

Yeah, I have no doubt he'll come into the team sooner rather than later.

  Rogue said:

Okay, so Sylvia was playing as a forward but couldn't even manage to put a score on the board in three weeks

On a serious note, if you think my assertion was that CJ is a better player than Sylvia, would have done a better job, or anything remotely like that, then you're missing the point. The stats were simply a recent illustration of my ramblings earlier in the thread - they show a young player being persevered with despite not doing terribly much.

As I said, if I had time to go back through the last couple of years I'm sure I could find many more examples of kids being shown some faith, despite having lacklustre output.

No, I didn't think any of the above. I was simply pointing out the obvious that any comparison of the statistical output of Sylvia and Johnson is irrelevant as they are totally different players with totally different match committee expectations. Their performances would not be judged by the coaching staff using the same criteria. Johnson and Sylvia do not compete for the same position so any argument for CJ's inclusion would be based on his performance relative to those he is competing for a position with - Ward, Bell, Wheatley etc. By the way, I agree that Sylvia has been given an extended run when perhaps others weren't afforded the same luxury. I am however certain that Sylvia will, at least, be a good player. I haven't seen anything from CJ yet to indicate that he will be. I hope I'm proven wrong!

regarding sylvia and CJ, sylvia has just shown more promise at afl level. even if he hasnt dominated, hasnt had consistent big games, he has kicked goals, taken strong marks, and laid good tackles. he has shown glimpses, where i dont think CJ has done that.

however an interesting stats comparison:

2007 average disposals colin sylvia 12.6 (in 9 games) CJ 11.3 (3)

marks colin 4.4 CJ 3.0

tackles colin 2.2 CJ 2.0

these stats dont tell you what they are worth but as an average (of which colins is dragged down by a couple of poor games), they are about even...

CJ has also had 20 disposals in a match twice in his career which i didnt realise...

Out: Cam Bruce

In: Lynden Dunn

I am guessing there will be a huge push for the Blues thanks to the Editorial in todays Herald Sun Sport and all our late outs ... won' t suprise me to see them start $1.60 favs after losing by 70 points... says a lot about our sorry state.