Where we come into strife

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

From watching the match against hawthorn, and the preseason matches which we have lost, i have developed a pretty strong opinion about the issues that i think we are lacking at the moment, and where when we do get beaten, the areas that really do stand out to me.

Firstly:

My biggest worry at the moment is the speed in our backline. When i think of our players with burst of speed, i think of Bartram, Bennell, Sylvia, Bail, Blease, Davey, Scully, Wonna, Maric, and arguably Garland, Martin and Watts. Now with that said, Garland and Bartram are the two players on the weekend who spent a considerable amount of time down back, yet they were both more worried about their opponents not getting the ball, than running it out, which for most of the posters on here is a blessing, as seeing Bartram gallop out of defense could be painful to most, and if Garland was to run off his opponent (buddy and goodes) and a turnover happened, a goal would be a likely result. Bennell and Bail are the two other players who can play in the backline, yet this season are both having a bit more of a run around the ball, with Bail being used as a tagger (and a very good one, i reckon) and Bennell playing forward flank/wing roles. With this being said, Blease is the only other player being groomed as a defender, and i doubt he will play this season in our defense. This speed in the back line is an issue when the opponents implement a smaller forward line, also seen with the hawks twice, the essendon and brisbane matches, in the preseason when the hawks removed Roughead and played a small forward line we were killed, when they removed Renouf, thus playing hale and Roughead in the ruck and having a smaller forward line, we were beaten, brisbane had clark as the only tall target we were beaten and essendon used many smaller forwards and we were beaten, this could be explained by frawley not playing as he can play on both a tall and a small, but i think it is more to do with the speed of our back line, with grimes and Tapscott going to be the defender who are taking the small/medium quicker forwards and neither really have blistering foot speed. Our lack of foot speed out of defense is also an issue with the modern day football, and the full press zones. Speed is almost a necessity out of the back line, as this will break the lines, and push the zones further back, leading to play opening up and zones being broken, and with a back line of Rivers, Frawley, Grimes, Tapscott, Garland and Bartram, the speed to break the lines is not so much there, so instead we attempt to kick the ball out of defense, which when it works, works really well, and often leads to a full field transition, but when it doesn't often leads to an immediate turnover and scoring shot, or immense pressure back on our defenders. It looks like it is something we shall stick with, the disposal out of the back line, and when it works we will play really good footy, think 10 minutes of the second quarter with hawthorn, but when it doesn't we shall struggle, think first 5 minutes of the hawthorn match, and then the third quarter.

The fix that i see is hard running by davey, sylvia bennell and bail, to try and push back into our 50, get the handball receive and break the line, which we have been trying to do and it worked against sydney but not so much against hawks, so really the only thing we can do is wait, and wait, and wait for it to be almost perfected, and work a treat.

Secondly:

We are missing that extra big body, that enforcer in the forward line, which i have no doubt that in a few seasons could be Watts when he stacks on a few more kilos, this is a problem as both Lynden Dunn and Jack Watts can't outbody a big defender and will often get taken out of games due to it, but it is also a problem as when we boot it long we can only really kick it to Jamar or Martin, leading to predictability out of our defensive 50, and thus the ball is often returned quickly. i say this because when we look to boot it long out of 50, to a 1 on 1 or a 2 on 2 we often lose it and have been beaten to the ground ball on most occasions leading to a quick turnover and immediate pressure on our back line again. This is something we can only really wait for or poach a bodied player, but with gws and gold coast with lots of cash it will be hard. So again, we have to wait, and wait, until Watts comes of age, and becomes the player we know he can be.

Thirdly:

Clearances and hardball, we did it pretty well against sydney, but in most other preseason, and against hawthorn we were annihilated, which to me doesnt make sense as Jamar killed it out of the ruck, and dominated the hit outs. So this means we wither do not know where he is going to hit it, or we are in poor position, or the opposition just wants it more than us. With that being said obviously not every hit out is going to be to advantage, but with sundays result out of the middle, it looked like we could not get a sniff of the ball, and as we almost doubled the hit outs, it is hard to believe. In my opinion the difference is clear, no McKenzie, he is often the person with his hands on the ball first from hit outs or the person who is tackling one of their midfielders as they break, beamer played this role superbly against sydney, but dropped away against the hawks, nathan jones needs to be harder at the ball, because if we lose the hardball and the clearances, and we cannot work it out of our backline, then i guess we are in strife.

So the fix is players like nathan jones and beamer having competition for their spots, they need to work harder and perform consistently, and they need to know that if they have a string of poor games that players like Gysberts and McKenzie will jump straight into the starting line up. Scully playing aswell will make a difference.

They are my key issues, where we come into strife, and all of these issues are fixable, i do not see any problems with our forward line and competition for forward line positions is deep, and really our defense is probably in the top 5 in players ability in the afl, we just need to be patient, i am confident that everything will eventually come together, sorry this post is long, and is my opinion from what i have seen so i am sure people will disagree, but none the less i thought id post it and see where people are on the issue.

What does everyone else think? Where do we need to work on? Is there any quick fix to stop a quarter like our third quarter on sunday, (having said that hawthorn did just play some really good football aswell, and i dont think that we are in a position with our team to be controlling for four quarters of an afl match, but we should not have a 70 odd point turn around ever again)

[The Chazz 4,077]

From watching the match against hawthorn, and the preseason matches which we have lost, i have developed a pretty strong opinion about the issues that i think we are lacking at the moment, and where when we do get beaten, the areas that really do stand out to me.

Firstly:

My biggest worry at the moment is the speed in our backline. When i think of our players with burst of speed, i think of Bartram, Bennell, Sylvia, Bail, Blease, Davey, Scully, Wonna, Maric, and arguably Garland, Martin and Watts. Now with that said, Garland and Bartram are the two players on the weekend who spent a considerable amount of time down back, yet they were both more worried about their opponents not getting the ball, than running it out, which for most of the posters on here is a blessing, as seeing Bartram gallop out of defense could be painful to most, and if Garland was to run off his opponent (buddy and goodes) and a turnover happened, a goal would be a likely result. Bennell and Bail are the two other players who can play in the backline, yet this season are both having a bit more of a run around the ball, with Bail being used as a tagger (and a very good one, i reckon) and Bennell playing forward flank/wing roles. With this being said, Blease is the only other player being groomed as a defender, and i doubt he will play this season in our defense. This speed in the back line is an issue when the opponents implement a smaller forward line, also seen with the hawks twice, the essendon and brisbane matches, in the preseason when the hawks removed Roughead and played a small forward line we were killed, when they removed Renouf, thus playing hale and Roughead in the ruck and having a smaller forward line, we were beaten, brisbane had clark as the only tall target we were beaten and essendon used many smaller forwards and we were beaten, this could be explained by frawley not playing as he can play on both a tall and a small, but i think it is more to do with the speed of our back line, with grimes and Tapscott going to be the defender who are taking the small/medium quicker forwards and neither really have blistering foot speed. Our lack of foot speed out of defense is also an issue with the modern day football, and the full press zones. Speed is almost a necessity out of the back line, as this will break the lines, and push the zones further back, leading to play opening up and zones being broken, and with a back line of Rivers, Frawley, Grimes, Tapscott, Garland and Bartram, the speed to break the lines is not so much there, so instead we attempt to kick the ball out of defense, which when it works, works really well, and often leads to a full field transition, but when it doesn't often leads to an immediate turnover and scoring shot, or immense pressure back on our defenders. It looks like it is something we shall stick with, the disposal out of the back line, and when it works we will play really good footy, think 10 minutes of the second quarter with hawthorn, but when it doesn't we shall struggle, think first 5 minutes of the hawthorn match, and then the third quarter.

The fix that i see is hard running by davey, sylvia bennell and bail, to try and push back into our 50, get the handball receive and break the line, which we have been trying to do and it worked against sydney but not so much against hawks, so really the only thing we can do is wait, and wait, and wait for it to be almost perfected, and work a treat.

Secondly:

We are missing that extra big body, that enforcer in the forward line, which i have no doubt that in a few seasons could be Watts when he stacks on a few more kilos, this is a problem as both Lynden Dunn and Jack Watts can't outbody a big defender and will often get taken out of games due to it, but it is also a problem as when we boot it long we can only really kick it to Jamar or Martin, leading to predictability out of our defensive 50, and thus the ball is often returned quickly. i say this because when we look to boot it long out of 50, to a 1 on 1 or a 2 on 2 we often lose it and have been beaten to the ground ball on most occasions leading to a quick turnover and immediate pressure on our back line again. This is something we can only really wait for or poach a bodied player, but with gws and gold coast with lots of cash it will be hard. So again, we have to wait, and wait, until Watts comes of age, and becomes the player we know he can be.

Thirdly:

Clearances and hardball, we did it pretty well against sydney, but in most other preseason, and against hawthorn we were annihilated, which to me doesnt make sense as Jamar killed it out of the ruck, and dominated the hit outs. So this means we wither do not know where he is going to hit it, or we are in poor position, or the opposition just wants it more than us. With that being said obviously not every hit out is going to be to advantage, but with sundays result out of the middle, it looked like we could not get a sniff of the ball, and as we almost doubled the hit outs, it is hard to believe. In my opinion the difference is clear, no McKenzie, he is often the person with his hands on the ball first from hit outs or the person who is tackling one of their midfielders as they break, beamer played this role superbly against sydney, but dropped away against the hawks, nathan jones needs to be harder at the ball, because if we lose the hardball and the clearances, and we cannot work it out of our backline, then i guess we are in strife.

So the fix is players like nathan jones and beamer having competition for their spots, they need to work harder and perform consistently, and they need to know that if they have a string of poor games that players like Gysberts and McKenzie will jump straight into the starting line up. Scully playing aswell will make a difference.

They are my key issues, where we come into strife, and all of these issues are fixable, i do not see any problems with our forward line and competition for forward line positions is deep, and really our defense is probably in the top 5 in players ability in the afl, we just need to be patient, i am confident that everything will eventually come together, sorry this post is long, and is my opinion from what i have seen so i am sure people will disagree, but none the less i thought id post it and see where people are on the issue.

What does everyone else think? Where do we need to work on? Is there any quick fix to stop a quarter like our third quarter on sunday, (having said that hawthorn did just play some really good football aswell, and i dont think that we are in a position with our team to be controlling for four quarters of an afl match, but we should not have a 70 odd point turn around ever again)

Basically, what you're saying in each of the "fix's" is;

* We have to WAIT until we have perfected our backline clearance.

* We have to WAIT for Watts to become that big body forward we need.

* We have to WAIT for McKenzie and Scully to both a. come back from injury, and b. be strong enough to play as our midfield kings.

Pretty obvious what we have to do I think.

[No16 1]

You make some valid points but points one and two generally appear because of point three. We were killed in the stoppages in the third quarter against the hawks and any back line will look slow when all 36 player on the field are in one half. On numerous occasions we did break through the press but as our forwards had pressed up as well we had no-one to kick to up forward...

Kicking high and long to a big bodied forward can have its positives but also creates a reliance on one player (Fevola at Carlton, Reiwoldt at Richmond). When we win the ball in the middle, our forward structure is very very dangerous as it is highly mobile with players that can mark, crumb and create pressure.

If we lose the clearances against the Lions on the weekend we will struggle to win the game. Black and Rich will be their key on-ballers...

[e25 5]

Longwinded OP, not particularly bringing anything new to the fore.

Could this have not been squeezed into one of the many other threads started in the last week that have covered some of these topics ad nauseum..?