Ash35

I've switched off a bit lately from the whole thing, but I reckon I heard not too long ago on AFL 360 that the AFL, and more specifically Ken Wood, would be monitoring the legal payouts Essendon negotiate with the currently listed players along with any new contract they sign. They want to stop a scenario where Essendon says to 'Player A' sign on for much less than you are worth, and we'll make up for it with a more than generous legal payout, obviously giving Essendon more room in its salary cap to re-sign current players or sign on new players. The AFL and Essendon are both aware of this scenario, and are making sure things are done properly going forward, unlike many of the events from the past. No one can argue against having this must have safe guard to ensure Essendon don't benefit in the long term from the above scenario. The scepticism and blind hatred for all things Essendon and the AFL on here obviously means most of you miss things like this when it's reported.

"Fremantle, North Melbourne, Collingwood, Melbourne and Hawthorn courted Hooker, some with six-year deals at $800,000 a year." There are obviously some clubs around the AFL that think he is that good, including yours. Perhaps Melbourne didn't offer 6 years, but I doubt any of those clubs came knocking with less than 5 years on the table. There are some truly bizarre but not unexpected reactions/responses to this story on here. But Choke, yours is certainly not the most bizarre.

Take a chill pill mate. The point I was trying to make was the stark contrast in the medias "can't understand why they would appeal" attitude compared to Demonlands "can't understand why they wouldn't appeal" stance. I certainly wasn't saying one take was right and one was wrong. In fact, I have been one to say WADA should appeal. But it's safe to say 90% of Demonlanders have their minds made up on the subject, so hence my throw away line of "Not that it counts for a lot around here". I'm so glad you are willing to talk to me, being an outsider and all. I chose to come here naked, not hiding who I am and where my support lies. I don't troll, and I certainly didn't come here to "rumble".

It is the attitude I am taking. Like you say, many others have made their minds up [both sides of the fence] and will cry foul if the decision doesn't go their way. If we have done the wrong thing, whether that be proven at CAS, or with future tests etc, I firmly believe justice must occur. I don't want my club to have cheated, and I'll be horrified if it's proven. I don't want my club to "get away with cheating" either, that's not how I operate in my life or beliefs. But in my eyes, it needs to be proven. What better way than at CAS. So much is written on Demonland about corrupt anti-doping tribunals, AFL influence and conspiracies etc. Just because the original appeal didn't give the masses on here what they wanted. This appeal is no lose for me and my beliefs. If we have done the wrong thing, find us guilty and give out the punishments, that's the right thing and that's what should happen. But if we are found innocent, for a second time, I have no issue with holding my head high saying I support the EFC.

As I have said all along, I'm looking for closure with a final decision. If WADA can prove the EFC took performance enhancing drugs at CAS, the appropriate penalties should be given. If they can't, and the appeal fails, I will be able to going forward in life knowing my club did not cheat. That's my attitude, but I'm sure if WADA does lose, there will be a hundred conspiracy theories on here as to why. Annoyed that another season is a write off for my club, can't imagine what the players are feeling right now, let alone how they are going to get themselves up for a game of football Friday night. But in the end, if this is what it takes to get the truth, and closure, bring it on. Everyone on here is very confident that it's an open and shut case for WADA. I get the impression they don't appeal on a whim. Not that it counts for a lot around here, but early media buzz is that no one can understand why WADA would appeal. I'm happy to sit back and wait to see what happens.

I've always had the opinion that he is a 'good to ok' coach, but not a great coach. We are really struggling at the moment, and I don't think he has the answers. We seem to play [or at least qualify] for finals most years under him, but we have become stagnant. Haven't won a final since 2004. I would struggle to name 5 players on our list that have shown real improvement outside of natural development since Hird took over. The players do play for him though. Many players have said that they love playing for him. But in the end, that will only get you so far. I think our recruiting policy over in the off season was questionable. Getting Cooney and Gwilt were moves of a club that thinks they were close to challenging. I really don't think we are that close. We were 5 goals up against North in the Elimination final last year, maybe should have been further up, but either way, frustratingly lost that final. Geelong were ripe for the picking the next week so with a bit of luck, we could have been in a Preliminary Final. Perhaps the club looked at it that way. Maybe Hird felt pressure that he couldn't "comeback" as coach and the team go backwards. Our lack of scoring potency is a real worry. Our forward line is reliant on a 20 year old with potential (Daniher) and a defender (Carlisle). Zero small forward presence with Winderlich and Kommer always injured. Thank god we recruited Chapman. But that is the test of a coaches ability, manufacturing a game plan that works when you don't have your full compliment of players. He has failed that test so far this year.

I wanted Hird gone. The club reinstated him. Not my choice, but I'm not into the whole 'give up on the club and walk away until Hird is gone' type stuff. I support the Essendon Football Club. Administrators, players, coaches, they all come and go. I will stick fat no matter what comes. If the sh*t hits the fan in the coming months with a WADA appeal and guilty verdict, the EFC will need my support more than ever.

Not keeping records would qualify as poor record keeping I would think. So yes, if you want to be technical, I will change my phrasing from "poor record keeping" to "no record keeping".

I fully understand that point of view. And I fully agree that this is an extremely serious issue. So as an Essendon member, I want to be 100% sure we have done the things we are being accused of. Hence my welcoming of a WADA appeal.

Not saying they exist, it was just a hypothetical. I really hope that if my club has destroyed records that show they took performance enhancing drugs, that the "loop hole" that has allowed this to happen gets closed. If it was the case, I would be extremely disappointed and not in any way proud of my club. Obviously quite the opposite to proud. Many on here will say that this has clearly happened. I'm still waiting for the hard evidence. Poor record keeping does not automatically mean destroying of evidence. I am sincere in saying, and I have said it before, IF it can be proven that my club has done the wrong, the appropriate penalties must be handed out.

Don't have any hard info, but my understanding is that there has been samples kept for future testing. I assume that would only be done if the samples related to the 'Essendon 34' from 2012.

I'm not here to change your opinion, or anyone on here for that matter. Hypothetically, even if I had somehow stumbled across the mystery disappearing records. And lets say for the sake of the argument that those records actually cleared Essendon, most of you wouldn't want to know about it, your minds are made up. Which is fine. I reckon deefrag doesn't want a WADA appeal to go ahead in case it somehow miraculously clears Essendon, he'd prefer to have the case in limbo just so he can hate on Essendon with a passion. That says more about him than anything. And to you, deefrag, not that I ever need to justify myself to a person like you, but if you must know, at the last board election of the EFC, I voted for the only candidate that wanted to remove Hird as coach. I have always said he should not be coach of my football club as things stand at the moment. But like I said, I'm not here to impress haters like you. You're not worth it mate.

And I think that's where a decision by WADA not to appeal might lie. WADA don't appeal losing cases. But maybe hold off a few months, get the positive tests through a new type of test that is being developed, and then they have the evidence they need to get the job done. The next 12-24 hours will be very interesting. Not just whether WADA appeal, but if they don't, what their reasons are.

I'll give you a chance to explain your comments. If it's even hinting at the notion that me being an Essendon supporter means I'm into drugs, I will report you to the mods. I, like most people theses days, have had friends/family deal with issues surrounding illicit drugs. It's no joking matter. I was happy with the logical reply from daisycutter, but I'm struggling to interpret your comment.

Clearly there has been agendas both ways in the Melbourne media. Caroline Wilson/The Age in one corner, Mark Robinson/Herald-Sun in the other corner. People can talk conspiracies, bias vs free press, etc etc, but it's clearly been the case that The Age has taken an anti-Hird stance. I wouldn't know Darren Kane if he stood up in my rice bubbles, but coming from the Fairfax camp I wouldn't have thought he'd be looking at things with a bias towards EFC. Maybe it's the Essendon FC member in me coming out, but that's how I see things. Having said that, none of anything he writes, or Caro, or anyone changes my opinion on this matter.

Yeah, it's weird isn't it. Whether it's Jones or not, I'm struggling to fathom why Sydney [the city, not the FC] has been more sympathetic to Hird than most other places. Maybe they are anti ASADA, rather than pro Hird.

I read this on the weekend in The Age : Fairfax Lawyer and Media columnist Darren Kane, analysing the case, recently said ASADA's case, which relied on "a dumpster full of circumstantial evidence such as emails, intercepted text messages, possibly bogus invoices, transcripts and newspaper scrapbooks" fell "so horrendously short of the mark". This from someone representing Fairfax media, so pretty safe to say not an EFC/Hird apologist. My gut feeling is there is still a big chance WADA will announce an appeal. But it seems something will have change around if they are going to win that appeal.

Too true. Most of the Essendon GF's have had knock outs. Troy Simmonds in 2000 as you mentioned. And in 1983 Tim Watson was knocked out by Colin Robertson, and then 1984 Kevin Walsh was put to sleep by Dipper, although I'm not going to blame Sheedy for those two incidents.

I'm going with hoax. The "parent" quoted his son received over 1000 injections over an 18 month period. It's common knowledge that Dank was at the EFC for less than 12 months and the supplements programme lasted even less than that.

I understand how frustrating it is to deal with trolls, and restricting Demonland to purely Melbourne supporters would eliminate that, but how do you police it. How does a poster prove they barrack for Melbourne? Or is it purely on what content a poster writes? An obvious troll is an obvious troll, but it's not always that easy to spot.** ** - not a cryptic way of outing myself. lol [i'm not a troll]

Our performance against Sydney in Round 1 looked far from "drug enhanced". Quite the opposite. Gave up a 5 goal 1/2 time lead against NM in last years Elimination Final. I don't have any idea how long the benefits of such a supplements programme last, but we have had just as many flat, poor performances in recent times as stirring comeback victories. So my guess would be zero effect these days.

As an Essendon member, I would like to know what my players were injected with. Pure and simple. If it's the bad stuff, punishments have to be given. Can't escape that. This is a very passionate topic, for everyone. Sometimes passions blurs the lines of logic. Everyone has a right to their opinion, so you get the Essendon supporters who think we've done nothing wrong and are dirty on the world for slandering the club for 2 years. And you get opposition supporters who want Essendon booted from the AFL forever and won't watch another game of AFL until it happens. I worry for the state of mind for some of the posters on Demonland if WADA don't appeal.

Mate, your hatred for all things red and black is blinding you to what I am actually saying. The comment was made that it was a "clever play" by McDevitt to hand over to WADA like it was some masterstroke. It was his ONLY play. Where else was he to go. He was never going to win on appeal here, so blind Freddy knew what was going to happen next. McDevitt has done his job. I'm not bagging him. He done the best he could do with what he had at his disposal. But he isn't a clever mastermind, he has done a solid job. That's all. A cheap shot at him, no, just a comment. There is enough cheap shots being fired here that you don't need mine. I was just commenting mate, sorry I not joining in the chorus of wanting the Dons banned from the AFL for ever. I read every comment on here. I could say a lot, but I don't, there is no point. I chip in one comment, and I still get accused of looking at things through red and black glasses. I reckon you hate Essendon as much as I love them. So no real point in trying to discuss this topic. I think WADA will appeal. They should. Too many questions remain unanswered.

Whether I rate the tribunal or not, appealing here in Oz would have been foolish. Handing over the case to WADA was the obvious move, not a fiendishly clever play. McDevitt/ASADA gave it a shot, and fell well short. I don't think he had an option other than to go to big brother. My Essendon roots have nothing to do with the point I was making. Personally, and with no real knowledge, just my gut feel, WADA will appeal the case to CAS. McDevitt traveling to Montreal only strengthens my thoughts that the appeal will proceed.

You seriously give McDevitt far too much credit. "clever play"? More like his only play after ASADA comprehensively lost at the tribunal. The Montreal trip is interesting. Can't see why he would head over there unless they are planning an appeal to CAS.